[Ads-l] Berkeley and gender neutral words

Mon Jul 22 10:31:26 UTC 2019

 Singer Nina Simone was known as 'The High Priestess of Soul.'
--Margaret Lee
    On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:34:11 AM EDT, Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM> wrote:  

 > the religions most strongly associated with the word *priest* in the US
and
> (most? all?) other Anglophone societies restrict that function to males.

True only of Catholicism.

On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 12:46 AM Mark Mandel <markamandel at gmail.com> wrote:

> IMHO, *priestess* and *priest* are exactly parallel, but it happens that
> the religions most strongly associated with the word *priest* in the US and
> (most? all?) other Anglophone societies restrict that function to males.
>
> MAM
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 11:48 PM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > And “priestess” (=/= ‘female priest).  And then there’s
> > “governor”/“governess" and other asymmetrical pairs of that ilk.
> >
> > > On Jul 19, 2019, at 11:45 PM, Peter Reitan <pjreitan at HOTMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > See also, "Huntress."
> > >
> > > Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> > Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 6:16:23 PM
> > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > > Subject: Re: Berkeley and gender neutral words
> > >
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > > Sender:      American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:      Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > Subject:      Re: Berkeley and gender neutral words
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > "Goddess" is somehow doing well.
> > >
> > > The neutrality craze is based in part on the elementary fallacy that a
> > > word's meaning is dictated by its etymology.  Another significant basis
> > is
> > > the a priori belief that speakers of English are as sensitive to nuance
> > as
> > > are a subset of people with Ph.Ds and must, in any case, be protected
> > from
> > > "-man" words, which are dangerously, irremediably sexist and malign.
> > >
> > > JL
> > >
> > > JL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 8:42 PM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>> On Jul 19, 2019, at 8:01 PM, Mark Mandel <markamandel at GMAIL.COM>
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> The Latin means "No one is an heir or a living person.=E2=80=9D
> > >>
> > >> Mark=E2=80=99s finger meant =E2=80=9Cof=E2=80=9D rather than
> > =E2=80=9Cor=
> > > =E2=80=9D; the claim as it stands is
> > >> rather too strong.  More seriously, I don=E2=80=99t get the argument
> to
> > r=
> > > eplace
> > >> =E2=80=9Cheir=E2=80=9D, which is parallel to =E2=80=9Cactor=E2=80=9D
> > and =
> > > arguably also to =E2=80=9Cpoet=E2=80=9D.  By all
> > >> means, let=E2=80=99s dump =E2=80=9Cheiress=E2=80=9D,
> > =E2=80=9Cadventuress=
> > > =E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cactress=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Csculptress=E2=80=9D, or
> > >> =E2=80=9Cpoetess=E2=80=9D, although it could be (and has been) argued
> > tha=
> > > t =E2=80=9Cactress=E2=80=9D
> > >> performs a service that the others don=E2=80=99t, at least until
> > sex-neut=
> > > ral
> > >> casting becomes universal; the tradeoff for sex specification may be
> > deem=
> > > ed
> > >> worth it.  =E2=80=9CWaitress=E2=80=9D is another case, and I grant we
> > all=
> > > have different
> > >> cutoff points. (Mine is rather different from Jon=E2=80=99s, for
> > example.=
> > > )  But the
> > >> fact that =E2=80=9Cheiress=E2=80=9D can be plausibly argued to be
> > sexist =
> > > on the grounds
> > >> that it marks sex of the referent when it=E2=80=99s irrelevant, I
> > don=E2=
> > > =80=99t see why
> > >> that consideration should infect =E2=80=9Cheir=E2=80=9D, which as
> noted
> > b=
> > > elow really is
> > >> just =E2=80=98one who=E2=80=99, on grounds of both usage and
> etymology.
> > >>
> > >> LH
> > >>>
> > >>> On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 4:35 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <
> > >> adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The word [*heir*] is correctly applied to either a male or a female,
> > >>>> although,
> > >>>> in the latter sense, heiress n.  has been in general use since 17th
> > >>>> cent. In Law a person is not called an heir to any property until,
> > >>>> through the death of its possessor, he becomes entitled to it (
> > >>>> *nemo est heres viventis*).
> > >>>> [End excerpt]
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >>
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --=20
> > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > truth."
> > >
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> > >
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> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

-- 
-Wilson
-----
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-Mark Twain

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