[Ads-l] "sucker punch" 1910 etc.

Wed Jul 24 14:42:28 UTC 2019

Thanks. A Nov. 9, 1899 use of "sucker punches":
The Buffalo Review, p. 2, col. 2
"My little setto with Mr. Jack McCormack of Chicago has learned me a whole lot and hereafter I will have none of those 'sucker punches' in mine."

June 4, 1922, The Buffalo Review, p. 75, c. 5-6 "Jack Dempsey's Diary of a Trip to Europe"
"Frank was no [/] 'sucker puncher' when he landed that old Mary Ann."

Stephen

________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 9:50 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "sucker punch" 1910 etc.

Here is a link so that interested list members can read the article
with "sucker punch" in 1899.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.newspapers.com_clip_34185986_suckerpunch_&d=DwIBaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=uUVa-8oDL2EzfbuMuowoUadHHcJ7pjul6iFkS5Pd--8&m=08jpBNIuYsW2z_Cjkl1KhjG82IKESOZ_R_ZqrY1N4vo&s=s7LoUXMxj9X2MWSubNU93R2bHl8etysl7Nfs6wZRSbk&e=

Garson

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 9:25 AM Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I read all the early examples as implying that a sucker punch is
> unprofessional, even if it works.
>
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 9:22 AM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > As I read it, the 1899 "sucker punch" means a foolish one.
> >
> > In  the later exx., the punch is aimed at the sucker; I believe in 1899 it
> > is thrown by thim.
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 9:13 AM ADSGarson O'Toole <
> > adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Here is an instance of "sucker punch" in 1899. The context is boxing,
> > > but I am not certain of the meaning. Perhaps you have already seen it.
> > >
> > > Date: June 12, 1899
> > > Newspaper: The Buffalo Review
> > > Newspaper Location: Buffalo, New York
> > > Article: "The King Is Dead, Long Live the King"
> > > Quote Page 1, Column 5
> > > Database: Newspapers.com
> > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.newspapers.com_image_354436445_-3Fterms-3D-2522sucker-252Bpunch-2522&d=DwIBaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=uUVa-8oDL2EzfbuMuowoUadHHcJ7pjul6iFkS5Pd--8&m=08jpBNIuYsW2z_Cjkl1KhjG82IKESOZ_R_ZqrY1N4vo&s=rE1P2ONXb6vDuiOtzU28_Bjtz6BdNY8xNPBMSBArYyc&e=
> > >
> > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > At times one saw the influence of Daly in the use of the left at close
> > > quarters and the effective high block for which made Fitz's right look
> > > like a sucker punch. They say that a fighter forgets his pictured
> > > attitude when in the ring.
> > > [End excerpt]
> > >
> > > Garson
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 6:26 AM Stephen Goranson <goranson at duke.edu>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I was asked about "sucker punch." No special knowledge here, but a few
> > > notes.
> > > > OED has it from 1947. Green's from 1917.
> > > > In boxing, a (defensively) high-risk but potentially (offensively)
> > > high-payoff lead with a right. Outside of boxing (later? figurative), a
> > > sudden, unwarned attack. If it "works," the punchee, a sucker; if not,
> > the
> > > puncher.
> > > >
> > > > Aug. 7, 1910 Duluth News-Tribune p. 4 col. 1-2 [AHN]
> > > > ....McFarland has excused himself for his showing in that battle
> > because
> > > he said he did [/] not think a boxer of Bronson's ability would resort to
> > > such a "sucker" punch. The result of the bout showed who was the sucker.
> > > >
> > > > Dec. 9, 1919 Evening Public Ledger (Philadelphia) p. 19 col. 6 [N.com]
> > > > Benjamin crossed his right, a short punch, less than six inches, as he
> > > and Murphy stepped back from the breakaway. Many of the spectators did
> > not
> > > see the blow that laid the West Philadelphian low. It was a 'sucker
> > punch"
> > > as Nick Hayes would have it.
> > > > [Nick Hayes, the early collocation adopter, was, maybe, a former boxer
> > > turned manager and eventually promoter and referee...as they say, out of
> > > Philadelphia.]
> > > >
> > > > Jan. 31, 1926 Greensboro Record (NC)  p. 20 col. 6 [AHN]
> > > > Then, with less warning than a swooping hawk, the Frenchman unleashed a
> > > swinging right hand. It was what is known in the argot of the ring as a
> > > "sucker punch."
> > > >
> > > > Feb. 20, 1936 The Advertiser (Adelaide, Aus.) p. 9, col. 4
> > > > Charley came around, trying to get me to lead a right hand to the body
> > > next time I boxed Corbett. That's a sucker punch you know--nobody would
> > try
> > > it against a fast man.
> > > > [For more context:
> > > >
> > >
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__trove.nla.gov.au_newspaper_article_74154311-3FsearchTerm-3D-2522sucker-2520punch-2522-26searchLimits-3Dsortby-3DdateAsc&d=DwIBaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=uUVa-8oDL2EzfbuMuowoUadHHcJ7pjul6iFkS5Pd--8&m=08jpBNIuYsW2z_Cjkl1KhjG82IKESOZ_R_ZqrY1N4vo&s=ZYEwGvOLcGMGIKN2uoa3AHSWvf_kZDJb7tVhmKx0cZ4&e=
> > > >
> > > > Stephen Goranson
> > > > http://people.duke.edu/~goranson/
> > > > Stephen Goranson's Home Page - Duke University<
> > > http://people.duke.edu/~goranson/>
> > > > Stephen Goranson. goranson "at" duke "dot" edu. Jannaeus.pdf. My paper
> > > on the history of Alexander Jannaeus as the Qumran- and Essene-view
> > "Wicked
> > > Priest" and Judah the Essene as the "Teacher of Righteousness" (3 August
> > > 2005 [revised 12 January 2006]; 34 pages), "Jannaeus, His Brother
> > Absalom,
> > > and Judah the Essene ". Dura-Europos.pdf "7 vs. 8: The Battle Over the
> > Holy
> > > Day at Dura-Europos"
> > > > people.duke.edu
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=DwIBaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=uUVa-8oDL2EzfbuMuowoUadHHcJ7pjul6iFkS5Pd--8&m=08jpBNIuYsW2z_Cjkl1KhjG82IKESOZ_R_ZqrY1N4vo&s=LOX2taOaxFlxs88NbG9oUB5qLfnEcZzXCHaULjnj98c&e=
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=DwIBaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=uUVa-8oDL2EzfbuMuowoUadHHcJ7pjul6iFkS5Pd--8&m=08jpBNIuYsW2z_Cjkl1KhjG82IKESOZ_R_ZqrY1N4vo&s=LOX2taOaxFlxs88NbG9oUB5qLfnEcZzXCHaULjnj98c&e=
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
>
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