[Ads-l] "sucker punch" 1910 etc.

Wed Jul 24 15:31:13 UTC 2019

Here is an instance of "sucker punches" in 1905. These sucker punches
were thrown by Nelson and struck Britt. Britt should have been able to
block or evade the punches; instead, he was struck and suffered. These
punches caused Britt to lose the match. Britt was a sucker because he
did not properly respond to the punches. There was no trickery. There
was incompetence. That is my interpretation.

Date: October 1, 1905
Newspaper: The Courier-Journal
Newspaper Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Article: Hopes To Meet Nelson Again
Section 4, Quote Page 4, Column 2
Database: Newspapers.com
https://www.newspapers.com/image/119541163/?terms=%22sucker%2Bpunches%22

[Begin excerpt]
Willie thinks his brother tossed the fight
off. "Britt," said he (he always alludes
to his brother by the family name). "Britt
threw discretion to the winds, and, try-
ing to lick Nelson quickly, went right in
and slammed with him more than he
should have done. I really thought the
fight well in his favor when the end come
and I was never more surprised than
when Britt fell before what looked to me
to be a couple of sucker punches. Nel-
son came in with both arms swinging
like a couple of flails. Britt should have
got away from them easily, but he must
have been trying to do something him-
self, for instead of escaping, he got one
hand on one side of the head and the
other right opposite it. He was knocked
back into the ropes. He bounded out
right in front of Nelson, who met him
with an uppercut flush to the chin, and it
was all over with Britt."
[End excerpt]

Garson

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 10:42 AM Stephen Goranson <goranson at duke.edu> wrote:
>
> Thanks. A Nov. 9, 1899 use of "sucker punches":
> The Buffalo Review, p. 2, col. 2
> "My little setto with Mr. Jack McCormack of Chicago has learned me a whole lot and hereafter I will have none of those 'sucker punches' in mine."
>
> June 4, 1922, The Buffalo Review, p. 75, c. 5-6 "Jack Dempsey's Diary of a Trip to Europe"
> "Frank was no [/] 'sucker puncher' when he landed that old Mary Ann."
>
> Stephen
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 9:50 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "sucker punch" 1910 etc.
>
> Here is a link so that interested list members can read the article
> with "sucker punch" in 1899.
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.newspapers.com_clip_34185986_suckerpunch_&d=DwIBaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=uUVa-8oDL2EzfbuMuowoUadHHcJ7pjul6iFkS5Pd--8&m=08jpBNIuYsW2z_Cjkl1KhjG82IKESOZ_R_ZqrY1N4vo&s=s7LoUXMxj9X2MWSubNU93R2bHl8etysl7Nfs6wZRSbk&e=
>
> Garson
>
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 9:25 AM Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I read all the early examples as implying that a sucker punch is
> > unprofessional, even if it works.
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019, 9:22 AM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > As I read it, the 1899 "sucker punch" means a foolish one.
> > >
> > > In  the later exx., the punch is aimed at the sucker; I believe in 1899 it
> > > is thrown by thim.
> > >
> > > JL
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 9:13 AM ADSGarson O'Toole <
> > > adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Here is an instance of "sucker punch" in 1899. The context is boxing,
> > > > but I am not certain of the meaning. Perhaps you have already seen it.
> > > >
> > > > Date: June 12, 1899
> > > > Newspaper: The Buffalo Review
> > > > Newspaper Location: Buffalo, New York
> > > > Article: "The King Is Dead, Long Live the King"
> > > > Quote Page 1, Column 5
> > > > Database: Newspapers.com
> > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.newspapers.com_image_354436445_-3Fterms-3D-2522sucker-252Bpunch-2522&d=DwIBaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=uUVa-8oDL2EzfbuMuowoUadHHcJ7pjul6iFkS5Pd--8&m=08jpBNIuYsW2z_Cjkl1KhjG82IKESOZ_R_ZqrY1N4vo&s=rE1P2ONXb6vDuiOtzU28_Bjtz6BdNY8xNPBMSBArYyc&e=
> > > >
> > > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > > At times one saw the influence of Daly in the use of the left at close
> > > > quarters and the effective high block for which made Fitz's right look
> > > > like a sucker punch. They say that a fighter forgets his pictured
> > > > attitude when in the ring.
> > > > [End excerpt]
> > > >
> > > > Garson
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 6:26 AM Stephen Goranson <goranson at duke.edu>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I was asked about "sucker punch." No special knowledge here, but a few
> > > > notes.
> > > > > OED has it from 1947. Green's from 1917.
> > > > > In boxing, a (defensively) high-risk but potentially (offensively)
> > > > high-payoff lead with a right. Outside of boxing (later? figurative), a
> > > > sudden, unwarned attack. If it "works," the punchee, a sucker; if not,
> > > the
> > > > puncher.
> > > > >
> > > > > Aug. 7, 1910 Duluth News-Tribune p. 4 col. 1-2 [AHN]
> > > > > ....McFarland has excused himself for his showing in that battle
> > > because
> > > > he said he did [/] not think a boxer of Bronson's ability would resort to
> > > > such a "sucker" punch. The result of the bout showed who was the sucker.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dec. 9, 1919 Evening Public Ledger (Philadelphia) p. 19 col. 6 [N.com]
> > > > > Benjamin crossed his right, a short punch, less than six inches, as he
> > > > and Murphy stepped back from the breakaway. Many of the spectators did
> > > not
> > > > see the blow that laid the West Philadelphian low. It was a 'sucker
> > > punch"
> > > > as Nick Hayes would have it.
> > > > > [Nick Hayes, the early collocation adopter, was, maybe, a former boxer
> > > > turned manager and eventually promoter and referee...as they say, out of
> > > > Philadelphia.]
> > > > >
> > > > > Jan. 31, 1926 Greensboro Record (NC)  p. 20 col. 6 [AHN]
> > > > > Then, with less warning than a swooping hawk, the Frenchman unleashed a
> > > > swinging right hand. It was what is known in the argot of the ring as a
> > > > "sucker punch."
> > > > >
> > > > > Feb. 20, 1936 The Advertiser (Adelaide, Aus.) p. 9, col. 4
> > > > > Charley came around, trying to get me to lead a right hand to the body
> > > > next time I boxed Corbett. That's a sucker punch you know--nobody would
> > > try
> > > > it against a fast man.
> > > > > [For more context:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__trove.nla.gov.au_newspaper_article_74154311-3FsearchTerm-3D-2522sucker-2520punch-2522-26searchLimits-3Dsortby-3DdateAsc&d=DwIBaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=uUVa-8oDL2EzfbuMuowoUadHHcJ7pjul6iFkS5Pd--8&m=08jpBNIuYsW2z_Cjkl1KhjG82IKESOZ_R_ZqrY1N4vo&s=ZYEwGvOLcGMGIKN2uoa3AHSWvf_kZDJb7tVhmKx0cZ4&e=
> > > > >
> > > > > Stephen Goranson
> > > > > http://people.duke.edu/~goranson/
> > > > > Stephen Goranson's Home Page - Duke University<
> > > > http://people.duke.edu/~goranson/>
> > > > > Stephen Goranson. goranson "at" duke "dot" edu. Jannaeus.pdf. My paper
> > > > on the history of Alexander Jannaeus as the Qumran- and Essene-view
> > > "Wicked
> > > > Priest" and Judah the Essene as the "Teacher of Righteousness" (3 August
> > > > 2005 [revised 12 January 2006]; 34 pages), "Jannaeus, His Brother
> > > Absalom,
> > > > and Judah the Essene ". Dura-Europos.pdf "7 vs. 8: The Battle Over the
> > > Holy
> > > > Day at Dura-Europos"
> > > > > people.duke.edu
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > >
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> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
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