[Ads-l] Lewis Porter on the origins of "jazz"

Wed Mar 20 19:38:33 UTC 2019

Thanks for your response, JL. Congratulations on uncovering the book
with the 1918 citation. Also, thanks to Jonathon Green for providing
access to the full citation information via his website.

Here is some evidence connecting "jaser" (French) to copulation from a
French reference work in 1861 and a French-English reference work in
1896. Admittedly, sometimes reference works about slang will copy
information from previous reference works even when the information is
not well supported. I am simply presenting details for citations and
happily defer to you, Gerald Cohen, Jonathon Green, and other experts.

After the citations  I present Green's note on the topic. His
bracketed 1896 citation points to Farmer's reference. Green candidly
states that "anglophone researchers have discounted any valid link".

Year: 1861
Book: Glossaire érotique de la langue française depuis son origine
jusqu'à nos jours
(Erotic glossary of the French language from its origin to the present day)
Compiler: Louis de Landes (Auguste Scheler)
Entry: Jaser, also Jazer
Quote Page 212
Publication: En Vente Chez Tous Les Librarires, Bruxelles
Database: Google Books Full View

https://books.google.com/books?id=IQMtAAAAYAAJ&q=Jaser#v=snippet&q=Jaser&f=false

[Begin excerpt]
Jaser. — Employé dans un sens obscène pour faire l'acte vénérien.

Tu as les genoux chauds, tu veux jaser.
La Comédie des proverbes.

Jazer, voyez Jaser.
[End excerpt]

[Begin Google Translation]
Jaser. — Used in an obscene sense to do the venereal act.

You have warm knees, you want to talk.
The Comedy of Proverbs.

Jazer, see Jaser.
[End Google Translation]

Year: 1896
Book: Vocabula Amatoria: a French-English Glossary of Words, Phrases,
and Allusions
Compiler: John Stephen Farmer
Quote Page 162, Column 2
Publication: Privately Printed for Subscribers Only, London
Database: Google Books Full View

https://books.google.com/books?id=bQnUAAAAMAAJ&q=jaser#v=snippet&

[Begin excerpt]
JASER (or JAZER). To copulate; 'to chuck a tread'.

Tu as les genoux chauds, tu veux jaser.—La Comédie des proverbes.
[End excerpt]

Green's Dictionary of Slang
https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/bua6kui

[Begin excerpt]
jazz v.
[jazz n.; note Pierre Guiraud in his ‘Dictionnaire érotique’ (Paris
1978, 1984, 1993) has ‘jaser = coiter’ and gives as a quotation ‘Tu as
les genoux chauds, tu veux jaser’ (La Comedie des proverbes XVIe s.)
As his source he gives ‘Glossaire érotique de la langue francaise
depuis son origine jusqu’à nos jours’ by Louis de Landes, Bruxelles
1861; this cit. is used in Farmer Vocabula Amatoria (1896); however
anglophone researchers have discounted any valid link]

[1896   [UK]   Farmer Vocabula Amatoria (1966) 162: Jaser (or Jazer).
To copulate].
[End excerpt]

Garson

On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 10:32 AM Jonathan Lighter
<wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Green's "1896" cites the French verb "jaser," not the English word "jazz."
>  Farmer's "Vocabula Amatoria" is a French-English glossary.
>
> "Jaser," as I understand it, usually means "to gossip or chatter."
>
> I'm unaware of any citation in French showing "jaser/ jazer" was used to
> mean "to copulate."
>
> Green's 1918, BTW, comes from a rare book cited in HDAS. I should have said
> "1918, in Cary."
>
> JL
>
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 9:29 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Green's Dictionary of Slang has a pertinent entry for the sexual sense
> > of the verb "jazz". The first citation in brackets is dated 1896. The
> > second citation in 1918 differs from the cite mentioned by Jesse.
> >
> > jazz v.
> > https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/bua6kui
> >
> > Click on the symbol appearing to the right of the timeline to see the
> > citation details.
> >
> > Garson
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > See also our discussion in 2015 about "The Jazz Girls" appearing in the
> > > credits of the earliest known stag film, questionably dated to 1915.
> > >
> > >
> > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2015-October/thread.html#139468
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 12:59 PM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > On Mar 19, 2019, at 12:49 PM, Jesse Sheidlower <jester at PANIX.COM>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > It's in the OED:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1918 J. Dos Passos _Jrnl._ 11 Nov. in _Fourteenth Chron._ (1973) 229
> > > > Talk is mainly of seasickness and the possibility of French jazz.
> > > > >
> > > > > OED also has a 1920 example of the verb in a sexual sense.
> > > >
> > > > For those without access to the OED, here’s the latter cite:
> > > >
> > > > 1920   A. C. Inman _Diary_ 14 Apr. in _Inman Diary_ (1985) I. 167   He
> > had
> > > > had sexual relations with her (in his slang ‘had jazzed her’).
> > > >
> > > > Pretty unambiguous.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 05:46:53PM +0100, Z Rice wrote:
> > > > >> Porter states in his writeup on "jazz":
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "Although a similar evolution happened to the word “jazz,” which
> > became
> > > > >> slang for the act of sex, that did not happen until 1918 at the
> > > > earliest."
> > > > >>
> > > > >> However, Porter doesn't mention what exactly the 1918 citation is or
> > > > where
> > > > >> it comes from. Does anyone have that information?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Link to Porter's writeup:
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > https://www.wbgo.org/post/where-did-jazz-word-come-follow-trail-clues-deep-dive-lewis-porter#stream/0
> > > > >>
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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