[Ads-l] Lewis Porter on the origins of "jazz"

Thu Mar 21 00:32:49 UTC 2019

On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 3:38 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for your response, JL. Congratulations on uncovering the book
> with the 1918 citation. Also, thanks to Jonathon Green for providing
> access to the full citation information via his website.
>
> Here is some evidence connecting "jaser" (French) to copulation from a
> French reference work in 1861 and a French-English reference work in
> 1896. Admittedly, sometimes reference works about slang will copy
> information from previous reference works even when the information is
> not well supported. I am simply presenting details for citations and
> happily defer to you, Gerald Cohen, Jonathon Green, and other experts.
>
> After the citations  I present Green's note on the topic. His
> bracketed 1896 citation points to Farmer's reference. Green candidly
> states that "anglophone researchers have discounted any valid link".
>
> Year: 1861
> Book: Glossaire érotique de la langue française depuis son origine
> jusqu'à nos jours
> (Erotic glossary of the French language from its origin to the present day)
> Compiler: Louis de Landes (Auguste Scheler)
> Entry: Jaser, also Jazer
> Quote Page 212
> Publication: En Vente Chez Tous Les Librarires, Bruxelles
> Database: Google Books Full View
>
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=IQMtAAAAYAAJ&q=Jaser#v=snippet&q=Jaser&f=false
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> Jaser. — Employé dans un sens obscène pour faire l'acte vénérien.
>
> Tu as les genoux chauds, tu veux jaser.
> La Comédie des proverbes.
>
> Jazer, voyez Jaser.
> [End excerpt]
>
> [Begin Google Translation]
> Jaser. — Used in an obscene sense to do the venereal act.
>
> You have warm knees, you want to talk.
> The Comedy of Proverbs.
>
> Jazer, see Jaser.
> [End Google Translation]
>
> Year: 1896
> Book: Vocabula Amatoria: a French-English Glossary of Words, Phrases,
> and Allusions
> Compiler: John Stephen Farmer
> Quote Page 162, Column 2
> Publication: Privately Printed for Subscribers Only, London
> Database: Google Books Full View
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=bQnUAAAAMAAJ&q=jaser#v=snippet&
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> JASER (or JAZER). To copulate; 'to chuck a tread'.
>
> Tu as les genoux chauds, tu veux jaser.—La Comédie des proverbes.
> [End excerpt]
>
> Green's Dictionary of Slang
> https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/bua6kui
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> jazz v.
> [jazz n.; note Pierre Guiraud in his ‘Dictionnaire érotique’ (Paris
> 1978, 1984, 1993) has ‘jaser = coiter’ and gives as a quotation ‘Tu as
> les genoux chauds, tu veux jaser’ (La Comedie des proverbes XVIe s.)
> As his source he gives ‘Glossaire érotique de la langue francaise
> depuis son origine jusqu’à nos jours’ by Louis de Landes, Bruxelles
> 1861; this cit. is used in Farmer Vocabula Amatoria (1896); however
> anglophone researchers have discounted any valid link]
>
> [1896   [UK]   Farmer Vocabula Amatoria (1966) 162: Jaser (or Jazer).
> To copulate].
> [End excerpt]
>
> Garson
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 10:32 AM Jonathan Lighter
> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Green's "1896" cites the French verb "jaser," not the English word
> "jazz."
> >  Farmer's "Vocabula Amatoria" is a French-English glossary.
> >
> > "Jaser," as I understand it, usually means "to gossip or chatter."
> >
> > I'm unaware of any citation in French showing "jaser/ jazer" was used to
> > mean "to copulate."
> >
> > Green's 1918, BTW, comes from a rare book cited in HDAS. I should have
> said
> > "1918, in Cary."
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 9:29 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <
> adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Green's Dictionary of Slang has a pertinent entry for the sexual sense
> > > of the verb "jazz". The first citation in brackets is dated 1896. The
> > > second citation in 1918 differs from the cite mentioned by Jesse.
> > >
> > > jazz v.
> > > https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/bua6kui
> > >
> > > Click on the symbol appearing to the right of the timeline to see the
> > > citation details.
> > >
> > > Garson
> > >
> > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > See also our discussion in 2015 about "The Jazz Girls" appearing in
> the
> > > > credits of the earliest known stag film, questionably dated to 1915.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2015-October/thread.html#139468
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 12:59 PM Laurence Horn <
> laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > On Mar 19, 2019, at 12:49 PM, Jesse Sheidlower <jester at PANIX.COM
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's in the OED:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1918 J. Dos Passos _Jrnl._ 11 Nov. in _Fourteenth Chron._ (1973)
> 229
> > > > > Talk is mainly of seasickness and the possibility of French jazz.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > OED also has a 1920 example of the verb in a sexual sense.
> > > > >
> > > > > For those without access to the OED, here’s the latter cite:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1920   A. C. Inman _Diary_ 14 Apr. in _Inman Diary_ (1985) I. 167
>  He
> > > had
> > > > > had sexual relations with her (in his slang ‘had jazzed her’).
> > > > >
> > > > > Pretty unambiguous.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 05:46:53PM +0100, Z Rice wrote:
> > > > > >> Porter states in his writeup on "jazz":
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> "Although a similar evolution happened to the word “jazz,” which
> > > became
> > > > > >> slang for the act of sex, that did not happen until 1918 at the
> > > > > earliest."
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> However, Porter doesn't mention what exactly the 1918 citation
> is or
> > > > > where
> > > > > >> it comes from. Does anyone have that information?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Link to Porter's writeup:
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > >
> https://www.wbgo.org/post/where-did-jazz-word-come-follow-trail-clues-deep-dive-lewis-porter#stream/0
> > > > > >>
> > > >
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> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

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