[Ads-l] Wikipedia Claim About "Jazz"

Wed Mar 27 16:36:44 UTC 2019

Yes, Sudhalter must have had the  March 3,

1913  article in mind when he made his errant suggestion. But his citing 1906 was only one

of several errors he made here.

Here's what really happened. On March

3, 1913, S.F. Bulletin sports writer Scoop

Gleeson wrote: "McCarl has been heralded

all along the line as a  'busher' [i.e., semi-pro

player; player with no professional experience],

but now it develops that this dope is very much

to the 'jazz'."

"Jazz" here = hot air, baloney -- definitely used

derogatorily.

Three days later (March 6) Gleeson had a

Saul-on-the-road-to-Damascus epiphany

and now embraced "jazz" as something very

positive (vim, vigor, fighting spirit), which

will help his beloved S.F. Seals team to victory.

Btw, note the date March 6 (1913). Maybe

that March 6 date inspired Sudhalter to

think of 1906.  As for Holbrook being brought

into the picture as the source of the supposed

1906 "jazz" quote, that's one more error

added to the mix.

I don't know Sudhalter, but if he'd like any

assistance on this for, perhaps, a second

edition of his book some day, I'd certainly

be willing to help.

Gerald Cohen

________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Baker, John <JBAKER at STRADLEY.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2019 10:48 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Wikipedia Claim About "Jazz"

---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Poster:       "Baker, John" <JBAKER at STRADLEY.COM>
Subject:      Re: Wikipedia Claim About "Jazz"
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The old Wikipedia claim is clearly a reference to the known use of "jazz" i=
n the San Francisco Bulletin on March 3, 1913; for some reason, Wikipedia's=
 source erroneously gave the date as 1906, not 1913.  The source is Richard=
 Sudhalter, Lost Chords: White Musicians and their Contribution to Jazz, 19=
15-1945.  According to Sudhalter, "A March 3, 1906, sports item in the San =
Francisco Bulletin refers to a promising baseball player as "very much to t=
he 'jazz.'""  Its meaning, as explained by the author, is somewhere between=
 "pep" and "enthusiasm," and it turns up increasingly in such sports featur=
e stories."  That precisely fits Scoop Gleeson's story of March 3, 1913.

The Wikipedia editor made some mistakes in reflecting Sudhalter's book, inc=
luding changing the quoted words to "very much in the jazz."

John Baker

From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of=
 Cohen, Gerald Leonard
Sent: Wednesday 27 March 2019 11:24 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Wikipedia Claim About "Jazz"

Here's a footnote to the subject:

Dick Holbrook wrote two items on jazz:

1. 1965 -- Jazz Rustitutions, No. 9,

Vintage Jazz Mart, pp. 4-5.

2. 1973-1974. Our Word "Jazz". Storyville

(Dec. 1973-Jan. 1974). Pp. 46-58.

Neither item mentions the supposed

March 3, 1906 "jazz" attestation in the

San Francisco Bulletin.

Gerald Cohen

------------------

On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 Gerald Cohen wrote:

I'm grateful to John for correcting the Wikipedia
item on the word "jazz." Would it perhaps also be
possible to update the reference to my 2005
Comments on Etymology working paper (Draft
#3)? That working paper should be replaced by
the book I authored (with due credit always given)
titled _Origin Of The Term "Jazz"_ (self-published, 2015),
193 pages. A copy is available in the library
of Missouri University of Science & Technology.
It represents 25+ years of research and is the most
complete treatment of the subject.

Btw, the publishing project is non-profit (per copy:
$25 + $10 mailing costs; book has soft cover).
I have about 40 copies left. It would be good if
a few more libraries could have a copy.

Gerald Cohen

________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Baker,=
=3D
John <JBAKER at STRADLEY.COM>
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 6:20 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Wikipedia Claim About "Jazz"

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----
Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Poster: "Baker, John" <JBAKER at STRADLEY.COM>
Subject: Re: Wikipedia Claim About "Jazz"
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----

I try to keep an eye on changes to the Wikipedia article
on "Jazz (word)" (which, as some may recall, I originally drafted), but tha=
t one slipped by me.
As it happens, the cited source does say that Holbrook
found "jazz" used in the San Francisco Bulletin in 1906.
But since that seems not to be the case, I have deleted
the statement from the Wikipedia article.

John Baker

From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of=
=3D
=3D3D
Cohen, Gerald Leonard
Sent: Monday 25 March 2019 8:54 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Wikipedia Claim About "Jazz"

External Email - Think Before You Click

Stephen and Fred are justified in their skepticism

of the supposed March 3, 1906 attestation of "jazz"

in the San Francisco Bulletin (supposedly located by Holbrook).

To be clear: That supposed 1906 attestation does not

exist. And Dick Holbrook certainly never suggested

it did. Holbrook's most important discovery was

an April 5, 1913 article in the San Francisco Bulletin

in which "jazz" is described as "a futurist word which

has just joined the language."

If the writer of the Wikipedia item would like any guidance on this, I'll b=
=3D
=3D3D
e happy to provide it.

Gerald Cohen

author of _Origin of the Term "Jazz"_, 2015.

(includes the detailed contributions of

ads-l members)

________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Stephe=
=3D
=3D3D
n Goranson <goranson at DUKE.EDU>
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 7:20 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Wikipedia Claim About "Jazz"

---------------------- Information from the mail header -------------------=
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Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Poster: Stephen Goranson <goranson at DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wikipedia Claim About "Jazz"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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----

Others here know more about jazz than I, but I suspect an error, perhaps a =
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typo. The 1903 claim apparently was added in a 12 Feb. 2019 edit by Vmavant=
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i, who is apparently a senior editor, and claimed to have added "sourced ma=
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terial." (A wiki vet maybe could contact him or her.) But this is not clear=
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ly sourced. Was it putatively Dick Horton but mentioned in an unnoticed pub=
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lication (such as a letter to Storyville?) or Horton orally as re-reported =
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by Richard M. Sudhalter (Lost Chords, a 2001 book)? It's hard to imagine th=
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at any such report went unnoticed till last month. Also, besides the early =
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1903 date, at least in the snippet quoted, it seems a later development, as=
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if jazz is already understood, and this is a special extreme form of it. B=
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ut others know more.

SG

________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Shapir=
=3D
=3D3D
=3D3D3D
o, Fred <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 6:36:43 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: [ADS-L] Wikipedia Claim About "Jazz"

I notice the Wikipedia article on "Jazz (Word)" makes the following asserti=
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on: "Holbrook found a reference in sports section the March 3, 1906 San Fra=
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e jazz', i.e. enthusiastic." Is this just a complete error or fabrication?

Fred Shapiro

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