[Ads-l] tunk/tonk [was Re: Antedating of "Strip Poker"]

Tue Oct 8 13:41:37 UTC 2019

Thank you.

I looked briefly at the OED, Wiktionary and Merriam-Webster, and all the meanings of “both” seem to refer to two items, but there aren’t many alternatives. 

whether … or, 
?? all of … and

BB

> On 7 Oct 2019, at 11:44, Andy Bach <afbach at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> ####
> I allude to poker, both straight, draw and tunk, keno, faro, croquet, polo,
> tennis, charades and base ball.
> ####
>> It’s not clear to me whether “tunk” is considered here to be a form of
> poker or not.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonk_(card_game) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonk_(card_game)>
> 
> *Tonk*, or *tunk*,[1]
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonk_(card_game)#cite_note-1 <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonk_(card_game)#cite_note-1>> is a matching
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_game#matching_card_games <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_game#matching_card_games>> card game
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_game <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_game>>, which combines features of knock
> rummy <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rummy <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rummy>> and conquian
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquian <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquian>>.[2]
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonk_(card_game)#cite_note-2 <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonk_(card_game)#cite_note-2>> Tonk is a
> relatively fast-paced game that can be played by 2-4 players. It was first
> known to be played by blues and jazz musicians in southern Louisiana while
> they would take their breaks in the back rooms of bars and saloons. In many
> other places it has become a popular pastime for workers while on their
> lunch breaks.
> 
> The "tunk" reference
> https://books.google.com/books?id=Hd1MpNYWAaoC&pg=PA407&dq=tonk+card+game&lr=&hl=cs#v=onepage&q=tonk%20card%20game&f=false <https://books.google.com/books?id=Hd1MpNYWAaoC&pg=PA407&dq=tonk+card+game&lr=&hl=cs#v=onepage&q=tonk%20card%20game&f=false>
> 
> says:
> The popular card games of Bid Whist and Tonk are African-American versions
> of the card games Bridge and Poker, respectively. Indeed, some will no
> doubt argue that Tonk and Bid Whist are mere derivations of Bridge and
> Poker, perhaps the two most preeminent card games in America. What is
> revealing is that African-Americans continue to play card games (Tonk and
> Bid Whist) that are strikingly similar to Bridge an Poker in most respects,
> but remarkably different in others, while continuing to play Bridge and
> Poker
> 
> Alas that is footnoted to page 413, which is not in the google book scan.
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 9:39 AM Barretts Mail <mail.barretts at gmail.com <mailto:mail.barretts at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> 
>> Nice find.
>> 
>> Tunk/tonk
>> https://bicyclecards.com/how-to-play/tunk/ <https://bicyclecards.com/how-to-play/tunk/> <
>> https://bicyclecards.com/how-to-play/tunk/ <https://bicyclecards.com/how-to-play/tunk/>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonk_(card_game) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonk_(card_game)> <
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonk_(card_game) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonk_(card_game)>>
>> 
>> Merriam-Webster has “tunk” (alt. spelling “tonk”) as a variation of rummy
>> but the OED has “tunk” only as a form of rent or payment in Wales. MW does
>> not date it. Here are two citations:
>> 
>> 1. Forest and Stream, Volume 20, p. 486
>> 19 Jul 1883
>> https://tinyurl.com/y6ff7syt <https://tinyurl.com/y6ff7syt> <https://tinyurl.com/y6ff7syt <https://tinyurl.com/y6ff7syt>>
>> 
>> ####
>> I allude to poker, both straight, draw and tunk, keno, faro, croquet,
>> polo, tennis, charades and base ball.
>> ####
>> ####
>> 
>> It’s not clear to me whether “tunk” is considered here to be a form of
>> poker or not.
>> 
>> 2. The Omega, p. 33
>> Senior Class of the Ann Arbor High School
>> 19 Jun 1884
>> https://tinyurl.com/yxebd8h6 <https://tinyurl.com/yxebd8h6> <https://tinyurl.com/yxebd8h6 <https://tinyurl.com/yxebd8h6>>
>> 
>> ####
>> Our enjoyments have been as innocents as the frolics of a lamb…. Old Maid,
>> Cross-eyed Crabs, Pig Euchre and Tunk each have a preference of one.
>> ####
>> ####
>> 
>> The preference of one meaning that each game is preferred by one person.
>> 
>> Benjamin Barrett (he/his/him)
>> Formerly of Seattle, WA
>> 
>>> On 6 Oct 2019, at 19:27, ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Excellent find, Fred. Here is a citation from a couple years earlier
>>> in 1904 that describes "strip tunk" which appears to be a precursor or
>>> variant of "strip poker". The link goes to a clipping of the article.
>>> 
>>> Date: May 2, 1904
>>> Newspaper: Waterloo Daily Courier
>>> Newspaper Location:
>>> Article: Co-eds Have a New Game: It Is Called "Strip Tunk" and Have
>>> Some Features That Are Decidedly Unique
>>> Quote Page 2, Column 3
>>> Database: Newspapers.com
>>> https://www.newspapers.com/clip/36836122/striptunk/
>>> 
>>> [Begin excerpt - may contain OCR errors]
>>> Kalamazoo co-eds are devoting their spare moments to “strip tunk" — a
>>> game similar to poker, with the main feature a gradual taking off of
>>> clothing by the loser of each hand. The game is also played in local
>>> high school circles, and has reached such prevalence that school
>>> authorities are planning a campaign against it. The hands are filled
>>> by drawing in turn from cards on the table, filling one's hand by
>>> exchange.
>>> 
>>> In “srip tunk" the loser of each hand divests herself of one article
>>> of clothing. After several hours the party usually resembles a garden
>>> of Eden social event.
>>> [End excerpt]
>>> 
>>> The misspelling "srip tunk" in the second paragraph above is in the
>>> original text.
>>> 
>>> Below is another citation for "strip tunk".
>>> 
>>> Date: May 19, 1904
>>> Newspaper: Catholic Union and Times
>>> Newspaper Location: Buffalo, New York
>>> Article: "Edjucation."
>>> Quote Page 1, Column 7
>>> Database: Newspapers.com
>>> https://www.newspapers.com/clip/36837169/striptunk02/
>>> 
>>> [Begin excerpt - may contain OCR errors]
>>> "The authorities of the local high school are much worked up over the
>>> discovery of a game known as 'strip tunk' among the larger boys of the
>>> school. It appears that the game has been going on for several weeks
>>> and that it now amounts to almost a mania, the boys putting in most of
>>> their spare time at it.
>>> 
>>> "The new game resembles poker, the loser taking off one article of
>>> clothing for each point lost until stripped"
>>> 
>>> It is not known how the boys got their peculiar idea of forfeits, but
>>> it is supposed that it originated in a boyish desire for novelty. The
>>> school authorities are making strenuous efforts to break up the
>>> game.--Kalamazoo Augustinian
>>> [End excerpt]
>>> 
>>> Garson
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Oct 6, 2019 at 9:08 PM Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> strip poker (OED 1929)
>>>> 
>>>> 1906 _L.A. Daily Times_ 16 Feb. 1 (Newspapers.com)  The chorus girls of
>> one of the last comic-opera companies which visited Los Angeles introduced
>> the young bloods to a new fascinating game called "strip poker." ... The
>> cards are held by the young men.  The girls sit by to watch.  At the end of
>> every hand, all the girls whose young men have lost, proceed to remove one
>> article of wearing apparel.  The game continues until -- well, for a long
>> time.
>>>> 
>>>> Fred Shapiro
>>>> 
>> 

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