[Ads-l] Seen

George Thompson george.thompson at NYU.EDU
Sat Aug 8 17:23:56 EDT 2020


My definitely non-Jewish family (don't ask) in Connecticut would say "sick
to my/your/her stomach" -- always "to", and specifying whose stomach.

GAT

On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 2:12 PM Margaret Winters <mewinters at wayne.edu> wrote:

> We lived with my grandparents and they and my mother spoke Yiddish until I
> was about 7when we lost my grandmother, not only to mask things from my
> sister and me.  But Yiddish doesn't seem to influence the preposition
> variation.
>
> ----------------------------
> MARGARET E WINTERS
> Former Provost
> Professor Emerita - French and Linguistics
> Wayne State University
> Detroit, MI  48202
>
> mewinters at wayne.edu
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2020 2:03 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Seen
>
> Our household was only Yiddish speaking when my brother and I weren’t
> supposed to understand something, and then only fragments with lots of
> English code-switched in.  But I’m beginning to doubt my memory; “sick in
> the stomach” doesn’t seem that bad at the moment (“sick in my stomach”
> seems less likely), but maybe I’m just thinking of “sick in the head”,
> which was fine—at least as an insult.
>
>
> > On Aug 8, 2020, at 1:55 PM, Margaret Winters <mewinters at WAYNE.EDU>
> wrote:
> >
> > I just looked the expression up in two English-Yiddish dictionaries to
> see if the prepositional difference for two NYC speakers was somehow linked
> to Yiddish speaking households (mine was when I was very young).  It didn't
> help - Weinreich has 'sick in (!) the stomach' and Schaechter has 'sick to
> the stomach' but neither Yiddish equivalent has a preposition at all.  Ah
> well, 'twas an idea...
> >
> > Margaret
> >
> > ----------------------------
> > MARGARET E WINTERS
> > Former Provost
> > Professor Emerita - French and Linguistics
> > Wayne State University
> > Detroit, MI  48202
> >
> > mewinters at wayne.edu
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> > Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2020 1:48 PM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: Seen
> >
> > I had that one too, but I’m not sure if the variation was free or
> conditioned (and if so, on what).
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Aug 8, 2020, at 1:47 PM, Margaret Winters <mewinters at WAYNE.EDU>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Interesting, Larry - I'm only a couple of years younger, also NYC and
> the only expression I knew was (and continued to be until this discussion
> came up here) 'sick to my stomach'.
> >>
> >> best to all,
> >> Margaret
> >>
> >> ----------------------------
> >> MARGARET E WINTERS
> >> Former Provost
> >> Professor Emerita - French and Linguistics
> >> Wayne State University
> >> Detroit, MI  48202
> >>
> >> mewinters at wayne.edu
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> >> Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2020 1:45 PM
> >> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Subject: Re: Seen
> >>
> >> Hmmm.  I grew up with “sick at my stomach” (or more generally “sick at
> one’s stomach” as in the DARE entry.  Not familiar with “sick at the
> stomach”.  I like Kurath’s note:
> >>
> >>> In southern New England and in
> >>> Greater New York City at is now fairly common among younger and
> cultured
> >>> persons.
> >>
> >> That was me in 1949, a very cultured younger speaker in NYC at age 4,
> not infrequently sick at his stomach.
> >>
> >> LH
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Aug 8, 2020, at 1:08 AM, Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> DARE has "sick at one’s stomach" (and variants including "sick at the
> >>> stomach") under the entry for "at" and labels it "widespread exc North,
> >>> though gaining currency throughout US." The relevant map from the DARE
> >>> surveys of 1965-70 shows the usage was indeed widespread at the time,
> >>> though I wonder if it has been "gaining currency" since then or
> receding.
> >>>
> >>> Map:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.daredictionary.com_view_maps_atprep2map.png&d=DwIF-g&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=v2Wtu7DQZxSBMSJv-oEMNg&m=tU-Z45BxyqrIMks6n9m6N-ozkvtwtGlp31SMLa5DXDw&s=ZErdL5Ble6mVuORyHspf111YQ3UqtVnKzbqOg1Unta4&e=
> >>>
> >>> From the "at" entry:
> >>>
> >>> 2 in phr _sick at one’s stomach_ and varr: Nauseated. widespread exc
> North,
> >>> though gaining currency throughout US
> >>> 1731 in 1906 Essex Inst. Coll. 42.224 MA, I am something better to day
> than
> >>> yesterday at my Stomack.
> >>> 1882 Sweet & Knox Texas Siftings 80 (DAE), When he is sick at his
> stomach .
> >>> . he goes to Col. Andrews for advice.
> >>> 1949 Kurath Word Geog. 78, _At the stomach_ is usual in all of the
> South
> >>> and the Midland and is not uncommon in Greater New York City,
> Connecticut,
> >>> and Rhode Island. In the greater part of New England and the rest of
> the
> >>> Northern area it is exceedingly rare. . . In southern New England and
> in
> >>> Greater New York City at is now fairly common among younger and
> cultured
> >>> persons.
> >>> 1965-70 DARE
> >>> Qu. BB16a, If something a person ate didn’t agree with him, he might be
> >>> sick __ his stomach
> >>> 408 Infs, widespread exc Nth, At; DC1, DE6, GA59, LA18, 25, 31, 40, At
> the;
> >>> NV8, At the belly; LA2, At the craw; MO20, At the tummy;
> >>> Qu. BB16b
> >>> Infs IN54, LA8, OK18, Sick at his stomach; MO39, OH42, Sick at the
> stomach;
> >>> CA212, Upset at the stomach;
> >>> Qu. BB17
> >>> Infs CA209, CO33, DE6, GA59, MI62, MO29, NJ9, VA42, (Be) sick at his
> (or
> >>> the, your) stomach;
> >>> Qu. H69
> >>> Inf TX91, Makes me sick at my stomach;
> >>> Qu. II29b
> >>> Infs IN45, VA58, Makes me sick at my (or the) stomach.
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 12:07 AM Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> In the last, long-leaping line an NYT book-review by a native of New
> >>>> Orleans:
> >>>>
> >>>> "... sick at the stomach." I.e. "nauseated."
> >>>>
> >>>> This is the phrase that I grew up using in East Texas. Never seen it
> in
> >>>> print afore.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nyti.ms_3gEkdHZ&d=DwIF-g&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=v2Wtu7DQZxSBMSJv-oEMNg&m=tU-Z45BxyqrIMks6n9m6N-ozkvtwtGlp31SMLa5DXDw&s=fZ-nhPNfVKGbDnWspxBg-am34pMlyDhq-zH4p1Fx46Y&e=
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> The American Dialect Society -
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=DwIF-g&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=v2Wtu7DQZxSBMSJv-oEMNg&m=tU-Z45BxyqrIMks6n9m6N-ozkvtwtGlp31SMLa5DXDw&s=MzILrrJoihfBLyZn-6h8vaoQ7JBLhRYIajqvXUKpcU8&e=
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society -
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=DwIF-g&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=v2Wtu7DQZxSBMSJv-oEMNg&m=tU-Z45BxyqrIMks6n9m6N-ozkvtwtGlp31SMLa5DXDw&s=MzILrrJoihfBLyZn-6h8vaoQ7JBLhRYIajqvXUKpcU8&e=
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society -
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=DwIF-g&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=v2Wtu7DQZxSBMSJv-oEMNg&m=tU-Z45BxyqrIMks6n9m6N-ozkvtwtGlp31SMLa5DXDw&s=MzILrrJoihfBLyZn-6h8vaoQ7JBLhRYIajqvXUKpcU8&e=
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society -
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=DwIF-g&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=v2Wtu7DQZxSBMSJv-oEMNg&m=tU-Z45BxyqrIMks6n9m6N-ozkvtwtGlp31SMLa5DXDw&s=MzILrrJoihfBLyZn-6h8vaoQ7JBLhRYIajqvXUKpcU8&e=
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society -
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=DwIF-g&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=v2Wtu7DQZxSBMSJv-oEMNg&m=tU-Z45BxyqrIMks6n9m6N-ozkvtwtGlp31SMLa5DXDw&s=MzILrrJoihfBLyZn-6h8vaoQ7JBLhRYIajqvXUKpcU8&e=
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society -
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=DwIF-g&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=v2Wtu7DQZxSBMSJv-oEMNg&m=tU-Z45BxyqrIMks6n9m6N-ozkvtwtGlp31SMLa5DXDw&s=MzILrrJoihfBLyZn-6h8vaoQ7JBLhRYIajqvXUKpcU8&e=
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society -
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=DwIF-g&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=v2Wtu7DQZxSBMSJv-oEMNg&m=tU-Z45BxyqrIMks6n9m6N-ozkvtwtGlp31SMLa5DXDw&s=MzILrrJoihfBLyZn-6h8vaoQ7JBLhRYIajqvXUKpcU8&e=
>


-- 
George A. Thompson
Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
Univ. Pr., 1998.

But when aroused at the Trump of Doom / Ye shall start, bold kings, from
your lowly tomb. . .
L. H. Sigourney, "Burial of Mazeen", Poems.  Boston, 1827, p. 112

The Trump of Doom -- also known as The Dunghill Toadstool.  (Here's a
picture of his great-grandfather.)
http://www.parliament.uk/worksofart/artwork/james-gillray/an-excrescence---a-fungus-alias-a-toadstool-upon-a-dunghill/3851

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