[Ads-l] Latinx

Jonathan Lighter wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Mon Aug 17 15:21:16 EDT 2020


I believe that turning an aesthetic issue like spelling into a political
issue like bigotry is wrongheaded and potentially destructive.

It's a way of othering.

JL



On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 3:07 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> {Xfinity} and {Qbada} are rather different cases.  The big difference
> (other than that they're crass marketing gimmicks - unlike Latinx?)  is
> that they don't urge you to mispronounce them. You either say them right or
> you're tongue-tied and/or you feel dumb and/or annoyed. (Well, I suppose
> "kuhbaduh" is plausible, even if wrong - though it seems to have "wrong,"
> as well as"crass marketing gimmick," written all over it.)
>
>  Larry, guess wrong on any of those, and, to paraphrase Jeff Foxworthy,
> you *could be*...a Racist. Or at least a philistine (racist term).
>
> JL
>
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 2:26 PM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Information questions, since I’m never sure if these terms all share the
>> same extension:
>>
>> (1) Does “Hispanic” generally extend to those of Brazilian origin?
>> (2) Does “Hispanic” include Spanish people (i.e. not those from "Latin
>> America”)?
>> (3) Does “Hispanic” include Portuguese people (i.e. not those from "Latin
>> America”)? (Yes, I know historically they’re from Lusitania, not Hispania,
>> but I’m wondering about synchronic extensions.)
>> (4) Am I right in thinking that the “Latino/a/x” labels, whatever their
>> advantages and drawbacks, do in fact extend to Braziians but not to
>> Iberians?
>>
>> LH
>>
>> > On Aug 17, 2020, at 12:58 PM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Surveys show that most Latino people have never heard the term "Latinx",
>> > and most of those who have hate it.
>> >
>> >
>> https://medium.com/@ThinkNowTweets/progressive-latino-pollster-trust-me-latinos-do-not-identify-with-latinx-63229adebcea
>> >
>> >
>> https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/11/901398248/hispanic-latino-or-latinx-survey-says
>> >
>> > But don't let that stop you speaking for them ..
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 11:08 AM Bethan Tovey-Walsh <accounts at bethan.wales
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>> If we're restricting ourselves to spelling, I vote for {Latinex}
>> >> But why do you believe you should get a vote? What I’m seeing here is a
>> >> bunch of white-passing people pronouncing on the name a particular
>> subset
>> >> of a minority group has proposed as a descriptor for themselves and
>> others
>> >> like them. If those who are supposed to be described by “Latinx”
>> object to
>> >> it (as some do), they will do so. If enough object to it, or are
>> >> indifferent towards it, it will probably die out. If enough are pleased
>> >> with it and adopt it, it will survive. Neither of those possible fates
>> is
>> >> the business of a bunch of non-Latinx people grouching about how
>> “absurd”
>> >> the term is on an academic mailing list.
>> >>
>> >> By the way, “Hispanic” and “Latin”/“Latino”/“Latina”/“Latinx” refer to
>> >> different, though overlapping, groups (and neither term is necessarily
>> >> popular amongst those it purports to include). I’m surprised that you
>> have
>> >> such “energetic” views about this subject and yet haven’t come across
>> this
>> >> basic bit of information.
>> >>
>> >> (My sincere apologies to anyone if I have misconstrued their
>> ethnicity; I
>> >> know most of you by reputation and public persona, which offers cues,
>> but
>> >> not certainty.)
>> >>
>> >> Bethan
>> >>
>> >> ___________________________________________________
>> >> Dr. Bethan Tovey-Walsh
>> >>
>> >> Myfyrwraig PhD | PhD Student CorCenCC
>> >> Prifysgol Abertawe | Swansea University
>> >>
>> >> CV: LinkedIn
>> >>
>> >> Croeso i chi ysgrifennu ataf yn y Gymraeg.
>> >> On 17 Aug 2020, 15:50 +0100, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
>> >,
>> >> wrote:
>> >>> Except that {Latinx}looks like, and by every rule of orthography
>> ought to
>> >>> be pronounced, "latinks," which is self-defeating, no? {Czech}, on
>> >>> the other hand, had no equally confusing rival pronunciation, because
>> the
>> >>> "cz" spelling was a simple importation. Approximations like "tsek" or
>> >>> "sek" are hardly analogous to "latinks."
>> >>>
>> >>> There's nothing insensitive about saying a spelling is absurd,
>> especially
>> >>> one created ad hoc by presumably lsensitive people. What rule says
>> that
>> >>> {Latinx} should not be pronounced "latinks"? Of course, by purely
>> >>> linguistic reasoning, "latinks" should be fine, but I doubt it would
>> gin
>> >> up
>> >>> much enthusiasm. Myself, I'd hesitate to use it, for fear of being
>> called
>> >>> obtuse.
>> >>>
>> >>> I wonder too what proportion of Hispanic people have ever heard of
>> (or,
>> >>> more to the point, use or pronounce properly) {Latinx}, or object to
>> the
>> >>> existing terminology. What's wrong with the thoroughly established
>> >>> "Hispanic," "Latin" or, if thought necessary, the suggested / lae
>> 'tin/ ?
>> >>> If we're restricting ourselves to spelling, I vote for {Latinex}, like
>> >>> {Latex}. (Much better than {Latin-Ex}. Which group of speakers,
>> >> precisely,
>> >>> insists on "Latinx"?
>> >>>
>> >>> By the way, switching (or compelling people to switch) to "Latinx"
>> >> (however
>> >>> pronounced) will not create a single new job, raise anybody's pay, or
>> do
>> >>> thing one to eliminate racism or sexism or any other plague.
>> >>>
>> >>> It will annoy people. We have proof of that.
>> >>>
>> >>> So if that's the purpose (aka "microaggression"), it's a great
>> choice. It
>> >>> reminds me of those who say that the "correct" name for citizens of
>> the
>> >>> United States is "USers" or "USians," for too obvious reasons. (There
>> are
>> >>> such people.)
>> >>>
>> >>> PS: Consider my tone energetic but not sarcastic.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 9:43 AM Bethan Tovey-Walsh
>> <accounts at bethan.wales
>> >>>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Evidently, there’s a large enough group of people who find the term
>> >> useful
>> >>>> and acceptable as a representation of their identity. Telling them
>> >> that the
>> >>>> word they’ve settled on is absurd and unnecessary and has a far more
>> >>>> grammatical alternative is insensitive as well as missing the point.
>> >> It’s
>> >>>> their word. It’s no more good or bad than any other word adapted to
>> >> fill a
>> >>>> need.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> No argument that a word’s spelling is unreasonable can hold much
>> water
>> >> in
>> >>>> English, of all languages. The pronunciations “lateen-ex” or
>> >> “latin-ex” are
>> >>>> both perfectly reasonable. They’re not conventional according to
>> >> English
>> >>>> orthotactic/phonotactic rules; but we settled on ways to pronounce
>> >> “Czech”
>> >>>> and “gateaux” and “shih tzu”, so I think we can do the same with
>> >> “Latinx”.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Bethan
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ___________________________________________________
>> >>>> Dr. Bethan Tovey-Walsh
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Myfyrwraig PhD | PhD Student CorCenCC
>> >>>> Prifysgol Abertawe | Swansea University
>> >>>>
>> >>>> CV: LinkedIn
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Croeso i chi ysgrifennu ataf yn y Gymraeg.
>> >>>> On 17 Aug 2020, 13:47 +0100, Jonathan Lighter <
>> wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
>> >>> ,
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>> I heard it on MSNBC yesterday pronounced as "Latin X."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "Latine" is obviously the superior choice, assuming one is even
>> >>>> necessary.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> JL
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> JL
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 8:27 AM Michael Everson <
>> >> everson at evertype.com>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> It makes absolutely no sense. And is it [laˈtinɛks] or [laˈtiŋks]?
>> >>>> Anyway
>> >>>>>> the obvious third choice given “latino” and “latina” is “latine”
>> >>>> [laˈtine].
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> M
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On 14 Aug 2020, at 15:45, Jonathan Lighter <
>> >> wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Huh?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>
>> https://news.yahoo.com/latinx-mostly-unknown-term-even-035021574.html
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> (Ironic "huh?" Of course I'm familiar with it! But this spelling
>> >> is
>> >>>>>>> absurd.)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> JL
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
>> >> the
>> >>>>>> truth."
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> >>>> truth."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> >> truth."
>> >>>
>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>


-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org


More information about the Ads-l mailing list