[Ads-l] Latinx

Jonathan Lighter wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Mon Aug 17 15:07:50 EDT 2020


{Xfinity} and {Qbada} are rather different cases.  The big difference
(other than that they're crass marketing gimmicks - unlike Latinx?)  is
that they don't urge you to mispronounce them. You either say them right or
you're tongue-tied and/or you feel dumb and/or annoyed. (Well, I suppose
"kuhbaduh" is plausible, even if wrong - though it seems to have "wrong,"
as well as"crass marketing gimmick," written all over it.)

 Larry, guess wrong on any of those, and, to paraphrase Jeff Foxworthy, you
*could be*...a Racist. Or at least a philistine (racist term).

JL

On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 2:26 PM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
wrote:

> Information questions, since I’m never sure if these terms all share the
> same extension:
>
> (1) Does “Hispanic” generally extend to those of Brazilian origin?
> (2) Does “Hispanic” include Spanish people (i.e. not those from "Latin
> America”)?
> (3) Does “Hispanic” include Portuguese people (i.e. not those from "Latin
> America”)? (Yes, I know historically they’re from Lusitania, not Hispania,
> but I’m wondering about synchronic extensions.)
> (4) Am I right in thinking that the “Latino/a/x” labels, whatever their
> advantages and drawbacks, do in fact extend to Braziians but not to
> Iberians?
>
> LH
>
> > On Aug 17, 2020, at 12:58 PM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> >
> > Surveys show that most Latino people have never heard the term "Latinx",
> > and most of those who have hate it.
> >
> >
> https://medium.com/@ThinkNowTweets/progressive-latino-pollster-trust-me-latinos-do-not-identify-with-latinx-63229adebcea
> >
> >
> https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/11/901398248/hispanic-latino-or-latinx-survey-says
> >
> > But don't let that stop you speaking for them ..
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 11:08 AM Bethan Tovey-Walsh <accounts at bethan.wales
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >>> If we're restricting ourselves to spelling, I vote for {Latinex}
> >> But why do you believe you should get a vote? What I’m seeing here is a
> >> bunch of white-passing people pronouncing on the name a particular
> subset
> >> of a minority group has proposed as a descriptor for themselves and
> others
> >> like them. If those who are supposed to be described by “Latinx” object
> to
> >> it (as some do), they will do so. If enough object to it, or are
> >> indifferent towards it, it will probably die out. If enough are pleased
> >> with it and adopt it, it will survive. Neither of those possible fates
> is
> >> the business of a bunch of non-Latinx people grouching about how
> “absurd”
> >> the term is on an academic mailing list.
> >>
> >> By the way, “Hispanic” and “Latin”/“Latino”/“Latina”/“Latinx” refer to
> >> different, though overlapping, groups (and neither term is necessarily
> >> popular amongst those it purports to include). I’m surprised that you
> have
> >> such “energetic” views about this subject and yet haven’t come across
> this
> >> basic bit of information.
> >>
> >> (My sincere apologies to anyone if I have misconstrued their ethnicity;
> I
> >> know most of you by reputation and public persona, which offers cues,
> but
> >> not certainty.)
> >>
> >> Bethan
> >>
> >> ___________________________________________________
> >> Dr. Bethan Tovey-Walsh
> >>
> >> Myfyrwraig PhD | PhD Student CorCenCC
> >> Prifysgol Abertawe | Swansea University
> >>
> >> CV: LinkedIn
> >>
> >> Croeso i chi ysgrifennu ataf yn y Gymraeg.
> >> On 17 Aug 2020, 15:50 +0100, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>,
> >> wrote:
> >>> Except that {Latinx}looks like, and by every rule of orthography ought
> to
> >>> be pronounced, "latinks," which is self-defeating, no? {Czech}, on
> >>> the other hand, had no equally confusing rival pronunciation, because
> the
> >>> "cz" spelling was a simple importation. Approximations like "tsek" or
> >>> "sek" are hardly analogous to "latinks."
> >>>
> >>> There's nothing insensitive about saying a spelling is absurd,
> especially
> >>> one created ad hoc by presumably lsensitive people. What rule says that
> >>> {Latinx} should not be pronounced "latinks"? Of course, by purely
> >>> linguistic reasoning, "latinks" should be fine, but I doubt it would
> gin
> >> up
> >>> much enthusiasm. Myself, I'd hesitate to use it, for fear of being
> called
> >>> obtuse.
> >>>
> >>> I wonder too what proportion of Hispanic people have ever heard of (or,
> >>> more to the point, use or pronounce properly) {Latinx}, or object to
> the
> >>> existing terminology. What's wrong with the thoroughly established
> >>> "Hispanic," "Latin" or, if thought necessary, the suggested / lae
> 'tin/ ?
> >>> If we're restricting ourselves to spelling, I vote for {Latinex}, like
> >>> {Latex}. (Much better than {Latin-Ex}. Which group of speakers,
> >> precisely,
> >>> insists on "Latinx"?
> >>>
> >>> By the way, switching (or compelling people to switch) to "Latinx"
> >> (however
> >>> pronounced) will not create a single new job, raise anybody's pay, or
> do
> >>> thing one to eliminate racism or sexism or any other plague.
> >>>
> >>> It will annoy people. We have proof of that.
> >>>
> >>> So if that's the purpose (aka "microaggression"), it's a great choice.
> It
> >>> reminds me of those who say that the "correct" name for citizens of the
> >>> United States is "USers" or "USians," for too obvious reasons. (There
> are
> >>> such people.)
> >>>
> >>> PS: Consider my tone energetic but not sarcastic.
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 9:43 AM Bethan Tovey-Walsh
> <accounts at bethan.wales
> >>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Evidently, there’s a large enough group of people who find the term
> >> useful
> >>>> and acceptable as a representation of their identity. Telling them
> >> that the
> >>>> word they’ve settled on is absurd and unnecessary and has a far more
> >>>> grammatical alternative is insensitive as well as missing the point.
> >> It’s
> >>>> their word. It’s no more good or bad than any other word adapted to
> >> fill a
> >>>> need.
> >>>>
> >>>> No argument that a word’s spelling is unreasonable can hold much water
> >> in
> >>>> English, of all languages. The pronunciations “lateen-ex” or
> >> “latin-ex” are
> >>>> both perfectly reasonable. They’re not conventional according to
> >> English
> >>>> orthotactic/phonotactic rules; but we settled on ways to pronounce
> >> “Czech”
> >>>> and “gateaux” and “shih tzu”, so I think we can do the same with
> >> “Latinx”.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bethan
> >>>>
> >>>> ___________________________________________________
> >>>> Dr. Bethan Tovey-Walsh
> >>>>
> >>>> Myfyrwraig PhD | PhD Student CorCenCC
> >>>> Prifysgol Abertawe | Swansea University
> >>>>
> >>>> CV: LinkedIn
> >>>>
> >>>> Croeso i chi ysgrifennu ataf yn y Gymraeg.
> >>>> On 17 Aug 2020, 13:47 +0100, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
> >>> ,
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> I heard it on MSNBC yesterday pronounced as "Latin X."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Latine" is obviously the superior choice, assuming one is even
> >>>> necessary.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> JL
> >>>>>
> >>>>> JL
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 8:27 AM Michael Everson <
> >> everson at evertype.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> It makes absolutely no sense. And is it [laˈtinɛks] or [laˈtiŋks]?
> >>>> Anyway
> >>>>>> the obvious third choice given “latino” and “latina” is “latine”
> >>>> [laˈtine].
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> M
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 14 Aug 2020, at 15:45, Jonathan Lighter <
> >> wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Huh?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> https://news.yahoo.com/latinx-mostly-unknown-term-even-035021574.html
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> (Ironic "huh?" Of course I'm familiar with it! But this spelling
> >> is
> >>>>>>> absurd.)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> JL
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
> >> the
> >>>>>> truth."
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >>>> truth."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >> truth."
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>


-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org


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