[Ads-l] Latinx

Laurence Horn laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
Mon Aug 17 14:26:20 EDT 2020


Information questions, since I’m never sure if these terms all share the same extension:

(1) Does “Hispanic” generally extend to those of Brazilian origin?
(2) Does “Hispanic” include Spanish people (i.e. not those from "Latin America”)?
(3) Does “Hispanic” include Portuguese people (i.e. not those from "Latin America”)? (Yes, I know historically they’re from Lusitania, not Hispania, but I’m wondering about synchronic extensions.)
(4) Am I right in thinking that the “Latino/a/x” labels, whatever their advantages and drawbacks, do in fact extend to Braziians but not to Iberians?

LH  

> On Aug 17, 2020, at 12:58 PM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> Surveys show that most Latino people have never heard the term "Latinx",
> and most of those who have hate it.
> 
> https://medium.com/@ThinkNowTweets/progressive-latino-pollster-trust-me-latinos-do-not-identify-with-latinx-63229adebcea
> 
> https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/11/901398248/hispanic-latino-or-latinx-survey-says
> 
> But don't let that stop you speaking for them ..
> 
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 11:08 AM Bethan Tovey-Walsh <accounts at bethan.wales>
> wrote:
> 
>>> If we're restricting ourselves to spelling, I vote for {Latinex}
>> But why do you believe you should get a vote? What I’m seeing here is a
>> bunch of white-passing people pronouncing on the name a particular subset
>> of a minority group has proposed as a descriptor for themselves and others
>> like them. If those who are supposed to be described by “Latinx” object to
>> it (as some do), they will do so. If enough object to it, or are
>> indifferent towards it, it will probably die out. If enough are pleased
>> with it and adopt it, it will survive. Neither of those possible fates is
>> the business of a bunch of non-Latinx people grouching about how “absurd”
>> the term is on an academic mailing list.
>> 
>> By the way, “Hispanic” and “Latin”/“Latino”/“Latina”/“Latinx” refer to
>> different, though overlapping, groups (and neither term is necessarily
>> popular amongst those it purports to include). I’m surprised that you have
>> such “energetic” views about this subject and yet haven’t come across this
>> basic bit of information.
>> 
>> (My sincere apologies to anyone if I have misconstrued their ethnicity; I
>> know most of you by reputation and public persona, which offers cues, but
>> not certainty.)
>> 
>> Bethan
>> 
>> ___________________________________________________
>> Dr. Bethan Tovey-Walsh
>> 
>> Myfyrwraig PhD | PhD Student CorCenCC
>> Prifysgol Abertawe | Swansea University
>> 
>> CV: LinkedIn
>> 
>> Croeso i chi ysgrifennu ataf yn y Gymraeg.
>> On 17 Aug 2020, 15:50 +0100, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>,
>> wrote:
>>> Except that {Latinx}looks like, and by every rule of orthography ought to
>>> be pronounced, "latinks," which is self-defeating, no? {Czech}, on
>>> the other hand, had no equally confusing rival pronunciation, because the
>>> "cz" spelling was a simple importation. Approximations like "tsek" or
>>> "sek" are hardly analogous to "latinks."
>>> 
>>> There's nothing insensitive about saying a spelling is absurd, especially
>>> one created ad hoc by presumably lsensitive people. What rule says that
>>> {Latinx} should not be pronounced "latinks"? Of course, by purely
>>> linguistic reasoning, "latinks" should be fine, but I doubt it would gin
>> up
>>> much enthusiasm. Myself, I'd hesitate to use it, for fear of being called
>>> obtuse.
>>> 
>>> I wonder too what proportion of Hispanic people have ever heard of (or,
>>> more to the point, use or pronounce properly) {Latinx}, or object to the
>>> existing terminology. What's wrong with the thoroughly established
>>> "Hispanic," "Latin" or, if thought necessary, the suggested / lae 'tin/ ?
>>> If we're restricting ourselves to spelling, I vote for {Latinex}, like
>>> {Latex}. (Much better than {Latin-Ex}. Which group of speakers,
>> precisely,
>>> insists on "Latinx"?
>>> 
>>> By the way, switching (or compelling people to switch) to "Latinx"
>> (however
>>> pronounced) will not create a single new job, raise anybody's pay, or do
>>> thing one to eliminate racism or sexism or any other plague.
>>> 
>>> It will annoy people. We have proof of that.
>>> 
>>> So if that's the purpose (aka "microaggression"), it's a great choice. It
>>> reminds me of those who say that the "correct" name for citizens of the
>>> United States is "USers" or "USians," for too obvious reasons. (There are
>>> such people.)
>>> 
>>> PS: Consider my tone energetic but not sarcastic.
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 9:43 AM Bethan Tovey-Walsh <accounts at bethan.wales
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Evidently, there’s a large enough group of people who find the term
>> useful
>>>> and acceptable as a representation of their identity. Telling them
>> that the
>>>> word they’ve settled on is absurd and unnecessary and has a far more
>>>> grammatical alternative is insensitive as well as missing the point.
>> It’s
>>>> their word. It’s no more good or bad than any other word adapted to
>> fill a
>>>> need.
>>>> 
>>>> No argument that a word’s spelling is unreasonable can hold much water
>> in
>>>> English, of all languages. The pronunciations “lateen-ex” or
>> “latin-ex” are
>>>> both perfectly reasonable. They’re not conventional according to
>> English
>>>> orthotactic/phonotactic rules; but we settled on ways to pronounce
>> “Czech”
>>>> and “gateaux” and “shih tzu”, so I think we can do the same with
>> “Latinx”.
>>>> 
>>>> Bethan
>>>> 
>>>> ___________________________________________________
>>>> Dr. Bethan Tovey-Walsh
>>>> 
>>>> Myfyrwraig PhD | PhD Student CorCenCC
>>>> Prifysgol Abertawe | Swansea University
>>>> 
>>>> CV: LinkedIn
>>>> 
>>>> Croeso i chi ysgrifennu ataf yn y Gymraeg.
>>>> On 17 Aug 2020, 13:47 +0100, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
>>> ,
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I heard it on MSNBC yesterday pronounced as "Latin X."
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Latine" is obviously the superior choice, assuming one is even
>>>> necessary.
>>>>> 
>>>>> JL
>>>>> 
>>>>> JL
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 8:27 AM Michael Everson <
>> everson at evertype.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> It makes absolutely no sense. And is it [laˈtinɛks] or [laˈtiŋks]?
>>>> Anyway
>>>>>> the obvious third choice given “latino” and “latina” is “latine”
>>>> [laˈtine].
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> M
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 14 Aug 2020, at 15:45, Jonathan Lighter <
>> wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>>> 
>>>> https://news.yahoo.com/latinx-mostly-unknown-term-even-035021574.html
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (Ironic "huh?" Of course I'm familiar with it! But this spelling
>> is
>>>>>>> absurd.)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> JL
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
>> the
>>>>>> truth."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>>> truth."
>>>>> 
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> truth."
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org


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