[Ads-l] Definition OTY

ADSGarson O'Toole adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM
Wed Aug 19 12:33:06 EDT 2020


Mark Mandel wrote:
> I don't think Moynihan's use is the newer sense. I can say what I want
> because *it's true*.

If you are interested in the provenance of the expression ascribed to
Moynihan you may find this article helpful:

People Are Entitled To Their Own Opinions But Not To Their Own Facts
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2020/03/17/own-facts/

An Associated Press article from 1946 printed the following remark
spoken by Bernard Baruch (a precursor to Moynihan's remark):

Every man has the right to an opinion but no man has a right to be
wrong in his facts.

The statement above remark suggests that facts can be wrong.

Garson

> MAM
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 2:28 PM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
>
> > I know we’ve had threads on this in the past (e.g. “I deny the fact
> > that…”), and I suspect you’re right in that this non-committal use of
> > “fact” is increasing.  In some contexts “claim” can be used as a
> > non-presuppositional alternative to “fact”, but of course not all
> > propositions correspond to overt claims.  And as you say, “proposition” is
> > rather non-colloquial.  Of course, if there can be alternative facts,
> > there’s no reason not to accelerate the trend.  As Daniel Patrick Moynihan
> > didn’t quite say,
> > “You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your
> > own facts. I am, though.”
> >
> > LH
> >
> > > On Aug 18, 2020, at 2:04 PM, Mark Mandel <markamandel at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> > >
> > > In general, I hear "fact" being used more and more often to mean
> > something
> > > like "proposition" in the logical sense. And the fact that I have to
> > > describe the usage that way illustrates why the usage is spreading: we
> > have
> > > no colloquial word for the concept.
> > >
> > > MAM
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 3:17 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Remember "Truth is not truth"?   Remember "alternative facts"? :
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-chief-of-staff-mark-meadows-says-lack-of-evidence-of-mail-in-voting-fraud-is-the-definition-of-fraud
> > >> :
> > >>
> > >> “But there’s no evidence of widespread voter fraud,” Tapper added after
> > >> Meadows reiterated his concern with voter rolls.
> > >>
> > >> “There’s no evidence that there’s not either. That’s the definition of
> > >> fraud, Jake.”
> > >>
> > >> See, undetected fraud is the worst fraud, so if there's no evidence of
> > >> fraud, that means the fraud has gone undetected.
> > >>
> > >> Extraordinary claims require undiscovered evidence.  Absent evidence is
> > >> evidence of non-absence.
> > >>
> > >> JL
> > >> --
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > truth."
> > >>
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >>
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org


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