[Ads-l] /hw/ vs. /w/ (was: Re: which)

Fri Jul 10 15:18:12 UTC 2020

I don't hear ~hw for any words startine with "wh" ever.  Is it an American dialect  anywhere?

Tom Zurinskas,  Originally from SW Conn 20 yrs,  college NE Tenn 3,  work SE NJ  33,  resides SE Florida 18...  truespel.com

________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 3:06 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: /hw/ vs. /w/ (was: Re: which)

> On Jul 9, 2020, at 10:10 PM, Margaret Winters <mewinters at WAYNE.EDU> wrote:
>
> It was certainly sung [hw] by the original cast.

Hmmm.  I’m not sure they sing it that way on each repetition:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REH9PV-z0vk

I hear it more like “wai o hwai o way o”

LH

>
> ----------------------------
> MARGARET E WINTERS
> Former Provost
> Professor Emerita - French and Linguistics
> Wayne State University
> Detroit, MI  48202
>
> mewinters at wayne.edu
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of James E. Clapp <j.clapp at EARTHLINK.NET>
> Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2020 9:19 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: /hw/ vs. /w/ (was: Re: which)
>
> I grew up with--and never lost--a distinction between 'why' /hway/ (interrogative) and 'why' /wye/ (interjection).
>
> Hence: "Wye, no!  Hway would you think that?"
>
> Or simply:  "Wye, hway would you think that?"
>
> Is this just my mother's (and now my) idiolect, or was that once a common distinction?
>
> Parenthetically, I'll bet Betty Comden and Adolph Green, the lyricists for "Wonderful Town" (1953) (music by Leonard Bernstein), would have been dismayed to hear their line "Why oh why oh why oh, why did I ever leave Ohio?" without the /h/ sounds that make the alliteration with oHIo work.
>
> James Clapp
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> On Behalf Of Joe Salmons
> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2020 3:32 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: /hw/ vs. /w/ (was: Re: which)
>
> Thanks. Fashion aside, that makes sense ...
>
> On 7/8/20, 2:31 PM, "American Dialect Society on behalf of Laurence Horn" <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU on behalf of laurence.horn at YALE.EDU> wrote:
>
> Well, at least this time I’ll change the subject line.  I don’t know if there are speakers who retain the distinction for some lexical items that historically displayed it while merging elsewhere.  There *are* speakers like me who artificially induce the distinction in overtly contrastive
> environments:  “Did you say ‘weather’ /'wEdh at r/ or ‘whether’ /'hwEdh at r/?”
> Or “‘Did you mean 'witch’ or “which’?”  Or, I suppose, “Are you talking about ‘wide wale’ or ‘wide whale’?”  I love the image of wide-whale corduroys…
>
> LH
>
> On Jul 8, 2020, at 3:13 PM, Baker, John <JBAKER at STRADLEY.COM> wrote:
>
> I’ve lost various aspects of my native Kentucky dialect since I last lived there decades ago, but I seem to retain /hw/, although the extent of this varies by word.
>
> Do other speakers retain /hw/ for words such as “whale,” for which (at least for me) it is relatively more pronounced?
>
> John Baker
>
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> On Behalf Of Laurence Horn
> Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 10:27 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: weird "which"
>
> External Email - Think Before You Click
>
>
> Thanks, Matt. So not New England, despite the practice of my wife (b. NYC 1944, raised CT). Interesting. I know there’s a complete merger for my students (and children) except for some students from Kentucky and adjacent regions, consistent with the below finding.
>
> LH
>
> On Jul 8, 2020, at 10:21 AM, Gordon, Matthew J. <GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU< mailto:GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU <GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU>>> wrote:
>
> It was examined by Labov and colleagues for the Atlas of North American English (published in 2006 with data collected in 1990s). They found the distinction between /hw/ and /w/ scattered across the US with a concentration of distinguishers in the South. Their isogloss goes south from West Virginia to GA and has a narrow band that extends west to Lubbock. Map is on p. 50 if you have ANAE.
>
>
> I believe it's age-graded in their data. Their narrative definitely suggests it's disappearing from use.
>
>
> Matt
>
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