[Ads-l] /hw/ vs. /w/ (was: Re: which)

Mon Jul 13 16:43:51 UTC 2020

> Hence: "Wye, no!  Hway would you think that?"

Exactly so.

> I don't hear ~hw for any words starting with "wh" ever. Is it an American
dialect  anywhere?

It all depends on where you live. Until I had the misfortune to live in
Boston, I had no idea that the /r/ in _thr+vowel_ words, as in "thrust,"
could be - not _would be_ - pronounced as a shwa-like vowel instead of as a
clearly Spanish-like trilled consonant: thur-ust and not thrrust. After
over thirty years in the greater Boston area, I had to relearn how to
pronounce _thrV_ the "right" way.

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 11:18 AM Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I don't hear ~hw for any words startine with "wh" ever.  Is it an American
> dialect  anywhere?
>
>
> Tom Zurinskas,  Originally from SW Conn 20 yrs,  college NE Tenn 3,  work
> SE NJ  33,  resides SE Florida 18...  truespel.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 3:06 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: /hw/ vs. /w/ (was: Re: which)
>
> > On Jul 9, 2020, at 10:10 PM, Margaret Winters <mewinters at WAYNE.EDU>
> wrote:
> >
> > It was certainly sung [hw] by the original cast.
>
> Hmmm.  I’m not sure they sing it that way on each repetition:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REH9PV-z0vk
>
> I hear it more like “wai o hwai o way o”
>
> LH
>
> >
> > ----------------------------
> > MARGARET E WINTERS
> > Former Provost
> > Professor Emerita - French and Linguistics
> > Wayne State University
> > Detroit, MI  48202
> >
> > mewinters at wayne.edu
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> James E. Clapp <j.clapp at EARTHLINK.NET>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2020 9:19 PM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: /hw/ vs. /w/ (was: Re: which)
> >
> > I grew up with--and never lost--a distinction between 'why' /hway/
> (interrogative) and 'why' /wye/ (interjection).
> >
> > Hence: "Wye, no!  Hway would you think that?"
> >
> > Or simply:  "Wye, hway would you think that?"
> >
> > Is this just my mother's (and now my) idiolect, or was that once a
> common distinction?
> >
> > Parenthetically, I'll bet Betty Comden and Adolph Green, the lyricists
> for "Wonderful Town" (1953) (music by Leonard Bernstein), would have been
> dismayed to hear their line "Why oh why oh why oh, why did I ever leave
> Ohio?" without the /h/ sounds that make the alliteration with oHIo work.
> >
> > James Clapp
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> On Behalf Of
> Joe Salmons
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2020 3:32 PM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: /hw/ vs. /w/ (was: Re: which)
> >
> > Thanks. Fashion aside, that makes sense ...
> >
> > On 7/8/20, 2:31 PM, "American Dialect Society on behalf of Laurence
> Horn" <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU on behalf of laurence.horn at YALE.EDU> wrote:
> >
> > Well, at least this time I’ll change the subject line.  I don’t know if
> there are speakers who retain the distinction for some lexical items that
> historically displayed it while merging elsewhere.  There *are* speakers
> like me who artificially induce the distinction in overtly contrastive
> > environments:  “Did you say ‘weather’ /'wEdh at r/ or ‘whether’ /'hwEdh at r
> /?”
> > Or “‘Did you mean 'witch’ or “which’?”  Or, I suppose, “Are you talking
> about ‘wide wale’ or ‘wide whale’?”  I love the image of wide-whale
> corduroys…
> >
> > LH
> >
> > On Jul 8, 2020, at 3:13 PM, Baker, John <JBAKER at STRADLEY.COM> wrote:
> >
> > I’ve lost various aspects of my native Kentucky dialect since I last
> lived there decades ago, but I seem to retain /hw/, although the extent of
> this varies by word.
> >
> > Do other speakers retain /hw/ for words such as “whale,” for which (at
> least for me) it is relatively more pronounced?
> >
> > John Baker
> >
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> On Behalf Of
> Laurence Horn
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 10:27 AM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: weird "which"
> >
> > External Email - Think Before You Click
> >
> >
> > Thanks, Matt. So not New England, despite the practice of my wife (b.
> NYC 1944, raised CT). Interesting. I know there’s a complete merger for my
> students (and children) except for some students from Kentucky and adjacent
> regions, consistent with the below finding.
> >
> > LH
> >
> > On Jul 8, 2020, at 10:21 AM, Gordon, Matthew J. <GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU<
> mailto:GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU <GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU>>> wrote:
> >
> > It was examined by Labov and colleagues for the Atlas of North American
> English (published in 2006 with data collected in 1990s). They found the
> distinction between /hw/ and /w/ scattered across the US with a
> concentration of distinguishers in the South. Their isogloss goes south
> from West Virginia to GA and has a narrow band that extends west to
> Lubbock. Map is on p. 50 if you have ANAE.
> >
> >
> > I believe it's age-graded in their data. Their narrative definitely
> suggests it's disappearing from use.
> >
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
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> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
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> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
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>
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>
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-----
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