[Ads-l] "Say good night, Gracie"

Thu Jul 16 15:19:49 UTC 2020

FWIW, according to Lawrence J. Epstein in George Burns: An American Life (2011) p. 119:

....Gracie may be in the center ring, but if he wanted, George could change the show. The simplest illustration of this fact is the signature sign-off. It is George who says, "Say goodnight, Gracie." And Gracie meekly follows his rule....

Stephen G.
________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Stephen Goranson <goranson at DUKE.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 9:50 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Say good night, Gracie"

A December 28, 1943 observation that may be true:

Thoughts while shaving: 1. The threadbare declaration, "You said it!" seems to have been supplanted by "You can say that again!"

p. 7 col. 3,

Greensboro [NC] Daily News

SG

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From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Stephen Goranson <goranson at DUKE.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 9:15 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Say good night, Gracie"

Somewhat related guess: if Gracie Allen had said that, at least on the radio or TV, someone would likely have remarked about it and that remark been found by now. Also, if it had been funny once, wouldn't they likely repeat that?

Somewhat related search issue: deciding whether "say uncle" really came from a *parrot* joke, and if so, why no certain (or, uncontested) evidence until decades later?

Somewhat related shtick, reportedly from The Three Stooges in "Micro-Phonies" in 1945:
Alice: I Hear the voice of spring anew (Opera sings)
Moe: Hey boys, I must be dead,I hear an angel singin'
Alice: Love is like a flower.
Curly: My Nyuk,Nyuk,Nyuk ain't she pretty?
Moe: Boy, you can say that again!
Curly: My Nyuk,Nyuk,Nyuk ain't she pretty?
Moe: Shut up!(Moe hits Curly)
Curly: You said I could!
Stephen

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From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 5:31 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Say good night, Gracie"

Interesting topic, Ben. George Burns stated that the dialog was a myth
in his 1988 book "Gracie: A Love Story".

[ref] 1988, Gracie: A Love Story by George Burns, Chapter 5, Quote
Page 161, G. P. Putnam's Sons, New York. (Verified with scans) [/ref]

[Begin excerpt]
It's a show-business myth that Gracie replied to my request to "Say
goodnight, Gracie," by saying, "Good night, Gracie." In fact, that's
probably one of the most misquoted lines in theater history. Maybe she
said it once, but I don't even remember that. She simply said, "Good
night." There were many reasons for that, the main one was that I just
never thought of "Good night, Gracie." And now that I've thought of
it, from now on she will have said it.
[End excerpt]

Someone compiled dozens of video segments showing the sign-off dialog
during which George Burns says, "Say good night, Gracie", "Gracie, say
good night", or simply "Say goodnight". Gracie Burns never replied
with the widely attributed punchline within these two compilations.

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k877AgQR0Ws__;!!OToaGQ!_43GsP5PnNUmHzHjvGfnHCrxilCqL2v5g5A-NSUKKlLZciQumZ9-wAXjIWVNQdk_$
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hNqmuTvbik__;!!OToaGQ!_43GsP5PnNUmHzHjvGfnHCrxilCqL2v5g5A-NSUKKlLZciQumZ9-wAXjIZOpsDk9$

Ben gives a template:

Person A: "Say good night, X"
Person B: "Goodnight X.

This is an instance of a more general template:

Person A: "Say, X"
Person B: "X"

Person A: "Tell me, X"
Person B: "X"

Examples:
Person A: "Say you love me"
Person B: "You love me"

Person A: "Please tell me you are happy."
Person B: "You are happy."

To my ear this sounds like vaudeville-style humor; probably earlier.
But I haven't been able to determine a search pattern to uncover
citations.

Garson

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:12 PM Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Perhaps Garson or one of our other quote-meisters could help figure this
> one out.
>
> Wikipedia currently has the following unsourced section in its Gracie Allen
> biography about the famous "Say good night, Gracie" exchange associated
> with her and George Burns.
>
> ----
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracie_Allen**A22Say_good_night,_Gracie*22__;IyUl!!OToaGQ!_43GsP5PnNUmHzHjvGfnHCrxilCqL2v5g5A-NSUKKlLZciQumZ9-wAXjIdfjERgG$
> The legend was born of their vaudeville routine and carried over to both
> radio and television. As the show wrapped up, Burns would look at Allen and
> say "Say good night, Gracie", to which she would usually simply reply "Good
> night." But popular legend has it that she would say, "Good night, Gracie."
> According to George Burns, recordings of their radio and television shows,
> and several histories of old-time radio (John Dunning's On the Air: The
> Encyclopedia of Old-Time Radio, for example), Gracie never used the phrase.
> The confusion may have been caused by Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In. Stars Dan
> Rowan and Dick Martin used a similar sign-off routine wherein Rowan would
> tell Martin to "Say good night, Dick." Martin's reply was always "Good
> night, Dick." It seemed like something Gracie Allen would have said.
> George Burns himself said as much in an interview years later, adding that,
> surprisingly enough, no one ever thought of having Allen say "Good night,
> Gracie". However, the former Burns and Allen head writer, Paul Henning, did
> use the "say good night" bit in at least one episode of The Beverly
> Hillbillies ("The Richest Woman", aired January 5, 1966, two years before
> Laugh-In premiered. JED: "Say good night, Jethro." JETHRO: "Good night,
> Jethro.")
> ----
>
> A quick check of the newspaper databases reveals that the "Say good night,
> Gracie" bit was associated with Burns & Allen before 1966. The earliest
> clear-cut example I found, giving the full exchange, appeared after Allen's
> death in 1964, in an unsigned editorial that ran in several papers with the
> headline "Good Night, Gracie":
>
> ----
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.newspapers.com/clip/55325610/say-good-night-gracie/__;!!OToaGQ!_43GsP5PnNUmHzHjvGfnHCrxilCqL2v5g5A-NSUKKlLZciQumZ9-wAXjIRBjfz5E$
> Marion (Ohio) Star, Aug. 29, 1964, p. 6, col. 2
> How was it George used to say, "Say goodnight, Gracie"? And she would say,
> "Goodnight, Gracie." And all of us repeat it now, with a lump in the
> throat, "Goodnight, Gracie." We loved you, too.
> ----
>
> Another unsigned editorial, headlined "Say Good Night, Gracie," is similar
> in form, but it doesn't explicitly say that Allen would respond to Burns's
> "Say good night, Gracie" with "Good night, Gracie":
>
> ----
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.newspapers.com/clip/55325638/say-good-night-gracie/__;!!OToaGQ!_43GsP5PnNUmHzHjvGfnHCrxilCqL2v5g5A-NSUKKlLZciQumZ9-wAXjIeGehImj$
> Cincinnati Enquirer, Sep. 3, 1964, p. 6, col. 1
> Her humor, refreshing and wholesome, is very nearly a lost commodity these
> days. George, of course, was the perfect fall guy whose only escape from
> Gracie's logic was the team's signature line of "Say good night, Gracie!"
> ----
>
> Likewise, when Allen retired from television in 1958, a headline included
> "Good night, Gracie" with no indication of the full exchange:
>
> ----
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.newspapers.com/clip/55325587/good-night-gracie/__;!!OToaGQ!_43GsP5PnNUmHzHjvGfnHCrxilCqL2v5g5A-NSUKKlLZciQumZ9-wAXjIXTpfkWT$
> Indianapolis News, Feb. 22, 1958, p. 7, col. 2
> Good Night, Gracie
> George Finally to Get His Own Laughs
> ----
>
> This would all still fit with the claim on Wikipedia, that the exchange
> between Burns & Allen was actually "Say good night, Gracie" / "Good night,"
> and only after the fact was Allen's response remembered as "Good night,
> Gracie." So, was the line misremembered that way before Allen's death in
> 1964? And were there other instances of the "Say good night, X" / "Good
> night, X" gag predating "The Beverly Hillbillies" and "Laugh-In" that could
> have reinforced the idea that Allen used the same formula?
>
> --bgz
>
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