[Ads-l] "Say good night, Gracie"

Thu Jul 16 19:22:09 UTC 2020

Sounds to me like an example of the "Mandela effect." A shared false memory.
Named after a widespread memory among many people of watching news reports
of Nelson Mandela's death in prison in the 1990s.

-----Original Message-----
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> On Behalf Of Stephen
Goranson
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 9:15 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "Say good night, Gracie"

Somewhat related guess: if Gracie Allen had said that, at least on the radio
or TV, someone would likely have remarked about it and that remark been
found by now. Also, if it had been funny once, wouldn't they likely repeat
that?

Somewhat related search issue: deciding whether "say uncle" really came from
a *parrot* joke, and if so, why no certain (or, uncontested) evidence until
decades later?

Somewhat related shtick, reportedly from The Three Stooges in
"Micro-Phonies" in 1945:
Alice: I Hear the voice of spring anew (Opera sings)
Moe: Hey boys, I must be dead,I hear an angel singin'
Alice: Love is like a flower.
Curly: My Nyuk,Nyuk,Nyuk ain't she pretty?
Moe: Boy, you can say that again!
Curly: My Nyuk,Nyuk,Nyuk ain't she pretty?
Moe: Shut up!(Moe hits Curly)
Curly: You said I could!
Stephen

________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 5:31 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Say good night, Gracie"

Interesting topic, Ben. George Burns stated that the dialog was a myth in
his 1988 book "Gracie: A Love Story".

[ref] 1988, Gracie: A Love Story by George Burns, Chapter 5, Quote Page 161,
G. P. Putnam's Sons, New York. (Verified with scans) [/ref]

[Begin excerpt]
It's a show-business myth that Gracie replied to my request to "Say
goodnight, Gracie," by saying, "Good night, Gracie." In fact, that's
probably one of the most misquoted lines in theater history. Maybe she said
it once, but I don't even remember that. She simply said, "Good night."
There were many reasons for that, the main one was that I just never thought
of "Good night, Gracie." And now that I've thought of it, from now on she
will have said it.
[End excerpt]

Someone compiled dozens of video segments showing the sign-off dialog during
which George Burns says, "Say good night, Gracie", "Gracie, say good night",
or simply "Say goodnight". Gracie Burns never replied with the widely
attributed punchline within these two compilations.

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k877AgQR0Ws__;!!
OToaGQ!_43GsP5PnNUmHzHjvGfnHCrxilCqL2v5g5A-NSUKKlLZciQumZ9-wAXjIWVNQdk_$
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hNqmuTvbik__;!!
OToaGQ!_43GsP5PnNUmHzHjvGfnHCrxilCqL2v5g5A-NSUKKlLZciQumZ9-wAXjIZOpsDk9$

Ben gives a template:

Person A: "Say good night, X"
Person B: "Goodnight X.

This is an instance of a more general template:

Person A: "Say, X"
Person B: "X"

Person A: "Tell me, X"
Person B: "X"

Examples:
Person A: "Say you love me"
Person B: "You love me"

Person A: "Please tell me you are happy."
Person B: "You are happy."

To my ear this sounds like vaudeville-style humor; probably earlier.
But I haven't been able to determine a search pattern to uncover citations.

Garson

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:12 PM Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Perhaps Garson or one of our other quote-meisters could help figure 
> this one out.
>
> Wikipedia currently has the following unsourced section in its Gracie 
> Allen biography about the famous "Say good night, Gracie" exchange 
> associated with her and George Burns.
>
> ----
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracie_Allen
> **A22Say_good_night,_Gracie*22__;IyUl!!OToaGQ!_43GsP5PnNUmHzHjvGfnHCrx
> ilCqL2v5g5A-NSUKKlLZciQumZ9-wAXjIdfjERgG$
> The legend was born of their vaudeville routine and carried over to 
> both radio and television. As the show wrapped up, Burns would look at 
> Allen and say "Say good night, Gracie", to which she would usually 
> simply reply "Good night." But popular legend has it that she would say,
"Good night, Gracie."
> According to George Burns, recordings of their radio and television 
> shows, and several histories of old-time radio (John Dunning's On the 
> Air: The Encyclopedia of Old-Time Radio, for example), Gracie never used
the phrase.
> The confusion may have been caused by Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In. Stars 
> Dan Rowan and Dick Martin used a similar sign-off routine wherein 
> Rowan would tell Martin to "Say good night, Dick." Martin's reply was 
> always "Good night, Dick." It seemed like something Gracie Allen would
have said.
> George Burns himself said as much in an interview years later, adding 
> that, surprisingly enough, no one ever thought of having Allen say 
> "Good night, Gracie". However, the former Burns and Allen head writer, 
> Paul Henning, did use the "say good night" bit in at least one episode 
> of The Beverly Hillbillies ("The Richest Woman", aired January 5, 
> 1966, two years before Laugh-In premiered. JED: "Say good night, 
> Jethro." JETHRO: "Good night,
> Jethro.")
> ----
>
> A quick check of the newspaper databases reveals that the "Say good 
> night, Gracie" bit was associated with Burns & Allen before 1966. The 
> earliest clear-cut example I found, giving the full exchange, appeared 
> after Allen's death in 1964, in an unsigned editorial that ran in 
> several papers with the headline "Good Night, Gracie":
>
> ----
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.newspapers.com/clip/55325610/s
> ay-good-night-gracie/__;!!OToaGQ!_43GsP5PnNUmHzHjvGfnHCrxilCqL2v5g5A-N
> SUKKlLZciQumZ9-wAXjIRBjfz5E$ Marion (Ohio) Star, Aug. 29, 1964, p. 6, 
> col. 2 How was it George used to say, "Say goodnight, Gracie"? And she 
> would say, "Goodnight, Gracie." And all of us repeat it now, with a 
> lump in the throat, "Goodnight, Gracie." We loved you, too.
> ----
>
> Another unsigned editorial, headlined "Say Good Night, Gracie," is 
> similar in form, but it doesn't explicitly say that Allen would 
> respond to Burns's "Say good night, Gracie" with "Good night, Gracie":
>
> ----
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.newspapers.com/clip/55325638/s
> ay-good-night-gracie/__;!!OToaGQ!_43GsP5PnNUmHzHjvGfnHCrxilCqL2v5g5A-N
> SUKKlLZciQumZ9-wAXjIeGehImj$ Cincinnati Enquirer, Sep. 3, 1964, p. 6, 
> col. 1 Her humor, refreshing and wholesome, is very nearly a lost 
> commodity these days. George, of course, was the perfect fall guy 
> whose only escape from Gracie's logic was the team's signature line of 
> "Say good night, Gracie!"
> ----
>
> Likewise, when Allen retired from television in 1958, a headline 
> included "Good night, Gracie" with no indication of the full exchange:
>
> ----
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.newspapers.com/clip/55325587/g
> ood-night-gracie/__;!!OToaGQ!_43GsP5PnNUmHzHjvGfnHCrxilCqL2v5g5A-NSUKK
> lLZciQumZ9-wAXjIXTpfkWT$ Indianapolis News, Feb. 22, 1958, p. 7, col. 
> 2 Good Night, Gracie George Finally to Get His Own Laughs
> ----
>
> This would all still fit with the claim on Wikipedia, that the 
> exchange between Burns & Allen was actually "Say good night, Gracie" /
"Good night,"
> and only after the fact was Allen's response remembered as "Good 
> night, Gracie." So, was the line misremembered that way before Allen's 
> death in 1964? And were there other instances of the "Say good night, 
> X" / "Good night, X" gag predating "The Beverly Hillbillies" and 
> "Laugh-In" that could have reinforced the idea that Allen used the same
formula?
>
> --bgz
>
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> The American Dialect Society - 
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