[Ads-l] Provisional comments on jitney in David L. Gold, L.B. 2018-2020

Fri Nov 13 10:41:19 UTC 2020

David Gold 2020 page 388: “The oldest known American English terms for a motor vehicle operated as a share taxi, possibly all dating to after 1 July 1914….” As noted before, ride shares in carriage or automobile predate 1914. For example, March 6, 1912, Springfield Republican [MA; AmHistn] 8/3:
Chicago now gives the longest “jitney” ride in the world—28 miles for a nickel.
The Gold article, unless I missed it, does not include the 1899, “ Can’t spare de change. Me granmaw died in Sout’ Afriky an’ I need dis to float me over ter de fun’ral.” “Quit yer kiddin’ an let me have a jitney.”
In the 1897 song “The Jitney Queen” we may have an outsider view of fantasy travel.
There are other, later jitney queens, including Eugenia Malczwoskie. Correct me if I’m wildly speculating here, but that does not sound like an African-American name.
S. Goranson
________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2020 7:22 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Provisional comments on jitney in David L. Gold, L.B. 2018-2020

> Carroll Fleming was, according to IMDb.com and other overlapping sources,
_an actor, director, writer, formerly a       > newspaper-man_ in
Cincinnati.

FWIW, IMO, if a black man was all of that and a composer in those days, he
would be at least as well-known to the black bourgeoisie as, e.g. Carl
Rowan. The HBUC, Big Ten, or Ivy League school that he attended and the
frat that he belonged to would be throughly engaged in keeping his memory
alive and people would be bragging about any connection to him. For
example, the father of one of my best friends was the best friend of Carl
Rowan, when they were both students at the University of Minnesota. But
I've never heard of Carroll Fleming, even though I have close friends from
Cincinnata.

Of course, youneverknow.

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 5:37 AM Stephen Goranson <goranson at duke.edu> wrote:

> The 1897 copyrighted song text of “The Jetney Queen” was written by
> “Carroll Fleming” [elsewhere less often spelled Carrol Fleming], who
> tentatively can be identified as the “professional name” of Fleming Poore,
> born in Lexington, KY in 1865 and died in the Bronx, NY in 1930. Carroll
> Fleming was, according to IMDb.com and other overlapping sources, an actor,
> director, writer, formerly a newspaper-man in Cincinnati.
> If this identification is correct, it may be worth noting that he does not
> appear, e.g., in his movie roles, to be black.
> Such may be relevant, given David L. Gold’s proposal that Jetney was an
> autonym for black, African-American, Negro. But was it in fact a
> self-designation? If the song lyric author was not black, the question
> becomes whether he is realistically reporting “colored parlance.” So far,
> given the reported early uses of jetney and jitney and gitney, that is far
> from established, in my current view.
>
> Stephen Goranson
>
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Stephen Goranson <goranson at DUKE.EDU>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 10:15 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Provisional comments on jitney in David L. Gold, L.B.
> 2018-2020
>
> As mentioned below, David Gold (p. 406) cites a "1898" text "In the
> colored parlance I'm the Jetney [...]"
> He does not provide a citation of the source. Perhaps he means the 1897
> song lyric in "The Jetney Queen," words by Caroll Fleming...
>
> In any case, sheet music here:
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://digital.library.ucla.edu/apam/librarian?VIEWPDF=SY106949PDF__;!!OToaGQ!_VH_ZabYAehs_ggUq1IzpATqfy1CzAuxIoI1bCDlKBTPEW-kh2-FRKWRnom16RJG$
>
> Stephen Goranson
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Stephen Goranson <goranson at DUKE.EDU>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 9:34 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Provisional comments on jitney in David L. Gold, L.B. 2018-2020
>
> Concerning the publication, David L. Gold, “Pursuing the origin of the
> American English informalism _gitney ~ jitney_: On the alleged Louisiana
> French word _*jetnée_ and the fallacy of omne ignotum pro magnifico in
> etymological research,” Leuvense Bijdragen 102 (2018-2020) 383-417.
> 1) The first sentence of the Abstract (p. 383, with my ellipses) included:
> “The author’s first treatment of the informal American English noun _gitney
> ~ jitney_...(Gold 2009b)…”
> I’m not sure how important it may be, but A. Liberman’s Bibliography of
> English Etymology lists at jitney, Gold 1983b, 1983h, and 1985b. And Gold
> 2009b, Chapter 9, “American English _jitney_....” in his Studies in
> Etymology and Etiology… (2009) 163-192 at footnote 1 reads: “This is an
> expanded version of an article which appeared in _Leuvense Bijdragen_ 87,
> 1988, pp. 155-170.” Also, Gold’s latest article cites me once at ads-l 20
> July 2016, (a post which also requoted, with typos corrected, a 3 July
> post); those combined refer to Liberman’s Bibliography at jitney, among
> other publications, and also Gold’s 2009 publication.
> 2) David Gold may have misunderstood my proposal. I wrote that
> jitney/jetney may have derived from French jeton: “The antedatings of
> jitney (1899) and jetney (1898), as well as the 1915 memory of jetnée may
> show the origin in Black Louisiana French, from jeton.”
> Quoting out of context sentence fragments of what I wrote (p. 408) may
> misrepresent what I think and thought and wrote.
> Gold wrote “In its present state, Stephen Goranson’s suggested etymology
> of gitney ~ jitney rests on no verified evidence.” Whether that’s accurate
> I leave to readers.
> Gold announced (409, 410, and bibliography) a forthcoming article that
> presumably will expand on an—uncited—1898 text including “In the colored
> parlance I’m the Jetney[…]”
>
> Stephen Goranson
> http://people.duke.edu/~goranson/
>
>
>
>
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--
- Wilson
-----
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-Mark Twain

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