[Ads-l] Provisional comments on jitney in David L. Gold, L.B. 2018-2020

Tue Nov 17 00:06:43 UTC 2020

> Eugenia Malczwoskie. Correct me if I’m wildly speculating here, but that
does not sound like an African-        > American name.

Well, not the surname, in any case. _Eugenia_ is fairly common among women
of my generation and older.

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 5:41 AM Stephen Goranson <goranson at duke.edu> wrote:

> David Gold 2020 page 388: “The oldest known American English terms for a
> motor vehicle operated as a share taxi, possibly all dating to after 1 July
> 1914….” As noted before, ride shares in carriage or automobile predate
> 1914. For example, March 6, 1912, Springfield Republican [MA; AmHistn] 8/3:
> Chicago now gives the longest “jitney” ride in the world—28 miles for a
> nickel.
> The Gold article, unless I missed it, does not include the 1899, “ Can’t
> spare de change. Me granmaw died in Sout’ Afriky an’ I need dis to float me
> over ter de fun’ral.” “Quit yer kiddin’ an let me have a jitney.”
> In the 1897 song “The Jitney Queen” we may have an outsider view of
> fantasy travel.
> There are other, later jitney queens, including Eugenia Malczwoskie.
> Correct me if I’m wildly speculating here, but that does not sound like an
> African-American name.
> S. Goranson
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2020 7:22 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Provisional comments on jitney in David L. Gold, L.B.
> 2018-2020
>
> > Carroll Fleming was, according to IMDb.com and other overlapping sources,
> _an actor, director, writer, formerly a       > newspaper-man_ in
> Cincinnati.
>
> FWIW, IMO, if a black man was all of that and a composer in those days, he
> would be at least as well-known to the black bourgeoisie as, e.g. Carl
> Rowan. The HBUC, Big Ten, or Ivy League school that he attended and the
> frat that he belonged to would be throughly engaged in keeping his memory
> alive and people would be bragging about any connection to him. For
> example, the father of one of my best friends was the best friend of Carl
> Rowan, when they were both students at the University of Minnesota. But
> I've never heard of Carroll Fleming, even though I have close friends from
> Cincinnata.
>
> Of course, youneverknow.
>
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 5:37 AM Stephen Goranson <goranson at duke.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > The 1897 copyrighted song text of “The Jetney Queen” was written by
> > “Carroll Fleming” [elsewhere less often spelled Carrol Fleming], who
> > tentatively can be identified as the “professional name” of Fleming
> Poore,
> > born in Lexington, KY in 1865 and died in the Bronx, NY in 1930. Carroll
> > Fleming was, according to IMDb.com and other overlapping sources, an
> actor,
> > director, writer, formerly a newspaper-man in Cincinnati.
> > If this identification is correct, it may be worth noting that he does
> not
> > appear, e.g., in his movie roles, to be black.
> > Such may be relevant, given David L. Gold’s proposal that Jetney was an
> > autonym for black, African-American, Negro. But was it in fact a
> > self-designation? If the song lyric author was not black, the question
> > becomes whether he is realistically reporting “colored parlance.” So far,
> > given the reported early uses of jetney and jitney and gitney, that is
> far
> > from established, in my current view.
> >
> > Stephen Goranson
> >
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> > Stephen Goranson <goranson at DUKE.EDU>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 10:15 AM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: Provisional comments on jitney in David L. Gold, L.B.
> > 2018-2020
> >
> > As mentioned below, David Gold (p. 406) cites a "1898" text "In the
> > colored parlance I'm the Jetney [...]"
> > He does not provide a citation of the source. Perhaps he means the 1897
> > song lyric in "The Jetney Queen," words by Caroll Fleming...
> >
> > In any case, sheet music here:
> >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://digital.library.ucla.edu/apam/librarian?VIEWPDF=SY106949PDF__;!!OToaGQ!_VH_ZabYAehs_ggUq1IzpATqfy1CzAuxIoI1bCDlKBTPEW-kh2-FRKWRnom16RJG$
> >
> > Stephen Goranson
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> > Stephen Goranson <goranson at DUKE.EDU>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 9:34 AM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject: Provisional comments on jitney in David L. Gold, L.B. 2018-2020
> >
> > Concerning the publication, David L. Gold, “Pursuing the origin of the
> > American English informalism _gitney ~ jitney_: On the alleged Louisiana
> > French word _*jetnée_ and the fallacy of omne ignotum pro magnifico in
> > etymological research,” Leuvense Bijdragen 102 (2018-2020) 383-417.
> > 1) The first sentence of the Abstract (p. 383, with my ellipses)
> included:
> > “The author’s first treatment of the informal American English noun
> _gitney
> > ~ jitney_...(Gold 2009b)…”
> > I’m not sure how important it may be, but A. Liberman’s Bibliography of
> > English Etymology lists at jitney, Gold 1983b, 1983h, and 1985b. And Gold
> > 2009b, Chapter 9, “American English _jitney_....” in his Studies in
> > Etymology and Etiology… (2009) 163-192 at footnote 1 reads: “This is an
> > expanded version of an article which appeared in _Leuvense Bijdragen_ 87,
> > 1988, pp. 155-170.” Also, Gold’s latest article cites me once at ads-l 20
> > July 2016, (a post which also requoted, with typos corrected, a 3 July
> > post); those combined refer to Liberman’s Bibliography at jitney, among
> > other publications, and also Gold’s 2009 publication.
> > 2) David Gold may have misunderstood my proposal. I wrote that
> > jitney/jetney may have derived from French jeton: “The antedatings of
> > jitney (1899) and jetney (1898), as well as the 1915 memory of jetnée may
> > show the origin in Black Louisiana French, from jeton.”
> > Quoting out of context sentence fragments of what I wrote (p. 408) may
> > misrepresent what I think and thought and wrote.
> > Gold wrote “In its present state, Stephen Goranson’s suggested etymology
> > of gitney ~ jitney rests on no verified evidence.” Whether that’s
> accurate
> > I leave to readers.
> > Gold announced (409, 410, and bibliography) a forthcoming article that
> > presumably will expand on an—uncited—1898 text including “In the colored
> > parlance I’m the Jetney[…]”
> >
> > Stephen Goranson
> > http://people.duke.edu/~goranson/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society -
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> >
>
>
> --
> - Wilson
> -----
> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint to
> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> -Mark Twain
>
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-- 
- Wilson
-----
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-Mark Twain

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