[Ads-l] Nine Yards again
Geoffrey Nathan
geoffnathan at WAYNE.EDU
Mon Sep 28 20:26:49 UTC 2020
I simply thought it was interesting that both 'six' and 'nine' yards seemed
to be magic numbers of amounts of fabric in both American and
Indian culture. I suggested there might be some relationship. I don't know how
the transmission might have happened.
There are certainly lots of
Hindi words in British English, although not so many have made it
across the pond. And I know of none that have skipped over the UK. Still…
I make no other claim, and intended to leave it to others to see whether this,
to me, interesting similarity might be of significance.
Geoff
Geoffrey S. Nathan
WSU Information Privacy Officer (Retired)
Emeritus Professor, Linguistics Program
http://blogs.wayne.edu/proftech/
geoffnathan at wayne.edu
From: Shapiro, Fred<mailto:fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 4:15 PM
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Poster: "Shapiro, Fred" <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nine Yards again
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Please explain how this usage is not unrelated to the American one. Was th=
e usage in backwoods Indiana and Kentucky influenced by use in India? Or a=
re you saying American and Indian usages developed in parallel because fabr=
ic in both places came in multiples of three yards?
Fred Shapiro
________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Geoffr=
ey Nathan <geoffnathan at WAYNE.EDU>
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 9:38 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nine Yards again
I have a Facebook (and very occasionally live) friend who is Indian.
Recently she posted a video on her FB page of a young woman dancing in a sa=
ri using
something like a hula hoop as an accessory, The original post says:
'Just loved her , love her free flowing uninhibited dance,
the ease of her movements in a saree and the fabulous
versatility of this beautiful six yard garment'
And I wondered about the 'six-yard' comment, so I asked my friend
If there were something special about 'six yards' and saris, and her answer=
was 'all
saris are made with six yards of fabric.' Apparently this is completely sta=
ndard
and known to all sari-wearers (my friend Shikha admits to having over 50)
So I went looking and it turns out the six-yards is a thing with saris. The=
re are all
sorts of websites selling saris that have 'six yards' in their names:
sixyards.co, https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A=
%2F%2F6yardsplus.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Cfred.shapiro%40yale.edu%7Ce8d6=
e13616834d1e2e3808d863b3c9b3%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C6=
37368971118719176&sdata=3DSKDEfnFbGbdPu2vqi3osVLyOcGM5NQ%2FguiNvRNUWsIA=
%3D&reserved=3D0, etc.
There is also an expression 'six yards of pure grace, which' gives lots of
hits on Google, including poems about saris.
It is hard to tell how old this is, but I suggest that this association is =
not unrelated
to the American one, but I don't have the resources to try to track this do=
wn.
I have promised my friend Shikha (who is a journalist, FWIW) I'd report on =
my
Investigations. So here you go. Have at it, folks.
Geoff
PS: Original dance is here:
Geoffrey S. Nathan
WSU Information Privacy Officer (Retired)
Emeritus Professor, Linguistics Program
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geoffnathan at wayne.edu
From: Cohen, Gerald Leonard<mailto:gcohen at MST.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 3:58 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nine Yards again
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Subject: Re: Nine Yards again
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----
Hi all,
Geoff,
To help with a summary of the situation, I'm now presenting two bibliograph=
=3D
ic items
that have appeared in the series of working papers, Comments on Etymology.
Bonnie Taylor-Blake and Peter Reitan deserve great credit for their excelle=
=3D
nt research,
and if you have something of interest to add, we will of course welcome it.
The two references are mentioned, pp. 13-14, in a news item in the latest
issue of Com. on Et. (Oct. 2020).
Reitan, Peter 2015. Origin of the whole three/six/nine yards: the
sale of cloth in multiples of threes was common in the 1800s and
early 1900s. Comments on Etymology, vol. 44, no. 4 (Jan. 2015),
pp. 1-35. --- On page 2 Reitan presents the following very helpful
abstract:
=3D91Despite excellent work on the whole nine yards, especially by
Bonnie Taylor-Blake, the origin of this expression has remained
unclear. However, I would now like to defend the already noticed
possibility that the origin is to be sought in nine yards of cloth. Ni=
=3D
ne
yards turns out to have been a common, if not standard, length in
which fabric was sold in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Three yards
and six yards of cloth were also frequently sold, which may account
for the lesser known expressions the whole three yards and the whole
six yards. As long as there were only a few examples spotted for the
cloth context of nine yards (or six or three), the suggestion of their
serving as the origin for the whole three/six/nine yards could be
dismissed as being merely conjectural. But with the compilation of
examples below=3D97and further searching will no doubt turn up more=3D=
97
I believe the suggestion increases considerably in plausibility.=3D92
Taylor-Blake, Bonnie 2014a. =3D91The whole nine yards=3D92: recent search f=
or
antedatings turns up =3D91the whole six yards=3D92 and =3D91the full n=
ine ya=3D
rds=3D92;
possible origin in U.S. South. Comments on Etymology, March-April
2014, vol. 43, no. 6-7, pp. 2-19. =3D96 pp. 7-8: 1907-1914 quotes from
The Mitchell Commercial (Laurence County, Indiana).
Gerald Cohen, editor
Comments on Etymology
Dept. of Arts, Languages, & Philosophy
Missouri University of Science & Technology
Rolla, MO 65409
________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Geoffr=
=3D
ey Nathan <geoffnathan at WAYNE.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 10:05 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Nine Yards again
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Poster: Geoffrey Nathan <geoffnathan at WAYNE.EDU>
Subject: Nine Yards again
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=3D
----
Apologies for bringing this up yet again, but I tried the archives and the
discussion was so scattered that I can't find a way to excavate what the cu=
=3D
rrent
theory is. think I've found something else, but before annoying you all wi=
=3D
th it, could someone point me
to a recent blog entry or something that summarizes where we stand at the =
=3D
moment?
Many thanks,
Geoff
Geoffrey S. Nathan
WSU Information Privacy Officer (Retired)
Emeritus Professor, Linguistics Program
https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fblogs.wa=
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geoffnathan at wayne.edu
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