[Ads-l] Nine Yards again

Mon Sep 28 20:15:44 UTC 2020

Please explain how this usage is not unrelated to the American one.  Was the usage in backwoods Indiana and Kentucky influenced by use in India?  Or are you saying American and Indian usages developed in parallel because fabric in both places came in multiples of three yards?

Fred Shapiro

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From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Geoffrey Nathan <geoffnathan at WAYNE.EDU>
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 9:38 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nine Yards again

I have a Facebook (and very occasionally live) friend who is Indian.
Recently she posted a video on her FB page of a young woman dancing in a sari using
something like a hula hoop as an accessory, The original post says:

'Just loved her , love her free flowing uninhibited dance,
the ease of her movements in a saree and the fabulous
versatility of this beautiful six yard garment'

And I wondered about the 'six-yard' comment, so I asked my friend
If there were something special about 'six yards' and saris, and her answer was 'all
saris are made with six yards of fabric.' Apparently this is completely standard
and known to all sari-wearers (my friend Shikha admits to having over 50)

So I went looking and it turns out the six-yards is a thing with saris. There are all
sorts of websites selling saris that have 'six yards' in their names:
sixyards.co, https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F6yardsplus.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cfred.shapiro%40yale.edu%7Ce8d6e13616834d1e2e3808d863b3c9b3%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637368971118719176&sdata=SKDEfnFbGbdPu2vqi3osVLyOcGM5NQ%2FguiNvRNUWsIA%3D&reserved=0, etc.

There is also an expression 'six yards of pure grace, which' gives lots of
hits on Google, including poems about saris.

It is hard to tell how old this is, but I suggest that this association is not unrelated
to the American one, but I don't have the resources to try to track this down.

I have promised my friend Shikha (who is a journalist, FWIW) I'd report on my
Investigations. So here you go. Have at it, folks.

Geoff

PS: Original dance is here:

Geoffrey S. Nathan
WSU Information Privacy Officer (Retired)
Emeritus Professor, Linguistics Program
https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.wayne.edu%2Fproftech%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cfred.shapiro%40yale.edu%7Ce8d6e13616834d1e2e3808d863b3c9b3%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637368971118719176&sdata=xBHmXy187RMavI8pxGTgmNHuEZuf3e1HIdeV7Ifddjg%3D&reserved=0
geoffnathan at wayne.edu

From: Cohen, Gerald Leonard<mailto:gcohen at MST.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 3:58 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nine Yards again

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Subject:      Re: Nine Yards again
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi all,

Geoff,

To help with a summary of the situation, I'm now presenting two bibliograph=
ic items

that have appeared in the series of working papers, Comments on Etymology.

Bonnie Taylor-Blake and Peter Reitan deserve great credit for their excelle=
nt research,

and if you have something of interest to add, we will of course welcome it.

The two references are mentioned, pp. 13-14,  in a news item in the latest

 issue of Com. on Et. (Oct. 2020).

Reitan, Peter 2015. Origin of the whole three/six/nine yards: the

     sale of cloth in multiples of threes was common in the 1800s and

     early 1900s. Comments on Etymology, vol. 44, no. 4 (Jan. 2015),

     pp. 1-35.    --- On page 2 Reitan presents the following very helpful

     abstract:

     =91Despite excellent work on the whole nine yards, especially by

     Bonnie Taylor-Blake, the origin of this expression has remained

     unclear. However, I would now like to defend the already noticed

     possibility that the origin is to be sought in nine yards of cloth. Ni=
ne

     yards turns out to have been a common, if not standard, length in

     which fabric was sold in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Three yards

     and six yards of cloth were also frequently sold, which may account

     for the lesser known expressions the whole three yards and the whole

     six yards. As long as there were only a few examples spotted for the

     cloth context of nine yards (or six or three), the suggestion of their

     serving as the origin for the whole three/six/nine yards could be

     dismissed as being merely conjectural. But with the compilation of

     examples below=97and further searching will no doubt turn up more=97

     I believe the suggestion increases considerably in plausibility.=92

Taylor-Blake, Bonnie 2014a. =91The whole nine yards=92: recent search for

     antedatings turns up =91the whole six yards=92 and =91the full nine ya=
rds=92;

     possible origin in U.S. South. Comments on Etymology, March-April

     2014, vol. 43, no. 6-7, pp. 2-19. =96 pp. 7-8: 1907-1914 quotes from

     The Mitchell Commercial (Laurence County, Indiana).

Gerald Cohen, editor

Comments on Etymology

Dept. of Arts, Languages, & Philosophy

Missouri University of Science & Technology

Rolla, MO 65409

________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Geoffr=
ey Nathan <geoffnathan at WAYNE.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 10:05 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Nine Yards again

---------------------- Information from the mail header -------------------=
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Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Poster:       Geoffrey Nathan <geoffnathan at WAYNE.EDU>
Subject:      Nine Yards again
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----

Apologies for bringing this up yet again, but I tried the archives and the
discussion was so scattered that I can't find a way to excavate what the cu=
rrent
theory is.  think I've found something else, but before annoying you all wi=
th it, could someone point me
 to a recent blog entry or something that summarizes where we stand at the =
moment?

Many thanks,

Geoff

Geoffrey S. Nathan
WSU Information Privacy Officer (Retired)
Emeritus Professor, Linguistics Program
https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.wayne.edu%2Fproftech%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cfred.shapiro%40yale.edu%7Ce8d6e13616834d1e2e3808d863b3c9b3%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637368971118719176&sdata=xBHmXy187RMavI8pxGTgmNHuEZuf3e1HIdeV7Ifddjg%3D&reserved=0
geoffnathan at wayne.edu

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