[Ads-l] RES: Able Was I Ere I Saw Elba

Wed Apr 7 02:55:51 UTC 2021

I came up with this, 40-ish years ago. It requires no ignoring of
punctuation: Reviled did I live ere evil I did deliver.
DAD

-----Mensagem original-----
De: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] Em nome de
Margaret Winters
Enviada em: terça-feira, 6 de abril de 2021 22:37
Para: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Assunto: Re: Able Was I Ere I Saw Elba

Poster:       Margaret Winters <mewinters at WAYNE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Able Was I Ere I Saw Elba
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---

What else could they have been talking in Eden?????

----------------------------
MARGARET E WINTERS
Former Provost
Professor Emerita - French and Linguistics Wayne State University Detroit,
MI  48202

mewinters at wayne.edu

________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Lauren=
ce Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 9:34 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Able Was I Ere I Saw Elba

That works=97especially if it was British English they were speaking in Ede=
n. Don=92t the Brits call apostrophes called "inverted commas=94?

> On Apr 6, 2021, at 9:27 PM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> What about "Madam, I'm Adam"? The comma mirrors the apostrophe (sort of).
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021, 9:23 PM Margaret Winters <mewinters at wayne.edu> 
> wrote=
:
>
>> And then there is the simplicity of Madam I'm Adam with a bit of 
>> handwaving over an apostrophe.
>>
>> ----------------------------
>> MARGARET E WINTERS
>> Former Provost
>> Professor Emerita - French and Linguistics Wayne State University 
>> Detroit, MI  48202
>>
>> mewinters at wayne.edu
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of 
>> Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 9:08 PM
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: Able Was I Ere I Saw Elba
>>
>> [EXTERNAL]
>>
>> Or, avoiding the ampersand, retaining Taylor's archaic spelling, and 
>> taking advantage of the work by Crick & Watson with which he was 
>> unfamil=
iar,
>>
>> LEWD DID I LIVE AND DNA-EVIL I DID DWEL
>>
>> Still arguably not as elegant as
>>
>> Doc, note: I dissent. A fast never prevents a fatness. I diet on cod.
>>
>> =97unless we=92re insisting that the words themselves as well as the 
>> let=
ters
>> satisfy palindromicity, which of course would also rule out "A man, a 
>> pl=
an,
>> a canal=97Panama!=94, not to mention the ur-palindrome =93Madam, 
>> I=92m A=
dam=94.
>>
>> LH
>>
>>> On Apr 6, 2021, at 4:23 AM, Stephen Goranson <goranson at DUKE.EDU> wrote:
>>>
>>> Classical Journal, 1819, p365 [HathiTrust] gives an earlier version,
>> without the &, without the extra L, without the attribution to Taylor 
>> (w=
ho,
>> or a contemporary, arguably, could have used the short spelling dwel):
>>>
>>> Lewd I did live, evil did I dwel.
>>>
>>> Stephen Goranson
>>> http://people.duke.edu/~goranson/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
>> James Eric Lawson <jel at NVENTURE.COM>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:38 AM
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Subject: Re: Able Was I Ere I Saw Elba
>>>
>>> The "'water poet' Taylor" was John Taylor, died 1654 according to 
>>> this
>>> account:
>>>
>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=3D
>> mdp=
.39015027615551&view=3D1up&seq=3D484&q1=3Dwater*20poet__;JQ!!OToaGQ!-u9b9w-=
iqKxA-E-I76T76YMi6C4LDR_SuQCRAb2P1HtF5ymeoM-rDosrPnaWyElN$
>>>
>>> J.T.R. is a tougher nut to crack. My efforts bore no immediate fruit.
>>>
>>> On 4/5/21 10:47 PM, Pete Morris wrote:
>>>> It's arguably the most famous palindrome in English. It is 
>>>> certainly the first one I  ever heard. When my father introduced me 
>>>> to the concept at a young age, this is the example he used.
>>>>
>>>> According to wikiquote:  (Section on Napoleon)
>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Napoleon_I_
>> of_=
France*Misattributed__;Iw!!OToaGQ!-u9b9w-iqKxA-E-I76T76YMi6C4LDR_SuQCRAb2P1=
HtF5ymeoM-rDosrPiRu-yI_$
>>>>
>>>> <<<         The earliest publication yet located of this famous
>> palindrome
>>>> is in the "Witty and Whimsical" section of The Saturday Reader, 
>>>> Vol. I=
I,
>>>> No. 30 (31 March 1866), p. 64:
>>>>
>>>>       It is said that Napoleon, when asked by Dr. O'Meara if he 
>>>> really thought he could have invaded England at the time he  
>>>> threatened to do so, replied in the following ingenious anagram 
>>>> [sic]: =97 "Able was=
 I
>>>> ere I saw Elba." The reader will Observe that it reads the same 
>>>> backwa=
rd
>>>> or forward.
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here's an earlier citation from July 8 1848, which credits the 
>>>> person who may have created it, and another  ingenious example.
>>>>
>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/fvu29s2d__;!!OToaGQ!-
>> u9b=
9w-iqKxA-E-I76T76YMi6C4LDR_SuQCRAb2P1HtF5ymeoM-rDosrPr9AjgUD$
>>>>
>>>> Their friend J.T.R. of Baltimore draws their attention to the 
>>>> followin=
g
>>>> created by the "Water poet Taylor",which had drawn considerable
>> attention.
>>>>
>>>> "Lewd did I live & evil I did dwell"    [shame about the extra l ]
>>>>
>>>> J.T.R. responded with two of his own:
>>>>
>>>> "Snug & raw was I ere I saw war & guns"
>>>> "Able was I ere I saw Elba"
>>>>
>>>> The editors are slightly critical of his use of & instead of 'and', 
>>>> bu=
t
>>>> find his second effort to be near perfection.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps some further study of back issues might reveal the full 
>>>> names of Taylor and J.T.R.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> James Eric Lawson
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society -
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.americandialect.org__;!!OToaGQ
>> !-u=
9b9w-iqKxA-E-I76T76YMi6C4LDR_SuQCRAb2P1HtF5ymeoM-rDosrPmPANDsQ$
>>>
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>>
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>
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