[Ads-l] RES: Able Was I Ere I Saw Elba

Wed Apr 7 03:10:00 UTC 2021

That “ere” is a very useful palindromic connective.  As in Josey’s reply to Nap, “Sore was I ere I saw Eros”.  

> On Apr 6, 2021, at 10:55 PM, David Daniel <dad at COARSECOURSES.COM> wrote:
> 
> I came up with this, 40-ish years ago. It requires no ignoring of
> punctuation: Reviled did I live ere evil I did deliver.
> DAD
> 
> -----Mensagem original-----
> De: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] Em nome de
> Margaret Winters
> Enviada em: terça-feira, 6 de abril de 2021 22:37
> Para: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Assunto: Re: Able Was I Ere I Saw Elba
> 
> Poster:       Margaret Winters <mewinters at WAYNE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: Able Was I Ere I Saw Elba
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> 
> What else could they have been talking in Eden?????
> 
> ----------------------------
> MARGARET E WINTERS
> Former Provost
> Professor Emerita - French and Linguistics Wayne State University Detroit,
> MI  48202
> 
> mewinters at wayne.edu
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Lauren=
> ce Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 9:34 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Able Was I Ere I Saw Elba
> 
> That works=97especially if it was British English they were speaking in Ede=
> n. Don=92t the Brits call apostrophes called "inverted commas=94?
> 
>> On Apr 6, 2021, at 9:27 PM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> 
>> What about "Madam, I'm Adam"? The comma mirrors the apostrophe (sort of).
>> 
>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021, 9:23 PM Margaret Winters <mewinters at wayne.edu> 
>> wrote=
> :
>> 
>>> And then there is the simplicity of Madam I'm Adam with a bit of 
>>> handwaving over an apostrophe.
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------
>>> MARGARET E WINTERS
>>> Former Provost
>>> Professor Emerita - French and Linguistics Wayne State University 
>>> Detroit, MI  48202
>>> 
>>> mewinters at wayne.edu
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of 
>>> Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 9:08 PM
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Subject: Re: Able Was I Ere I Saw Elba
>>> 
>>> [EXTERNAL]
>>> 
>>> Or, avoiding the ampersand, retaining Taylor's archaic spelling, and 
>>> taking advantage of the work by Crick & Watson with which he was 
>>> unfamil=
> iar,
>>> 
>>> LEWD DID I LIVE AND DNA-EVIL I DID DWEL
>>> 
>>> Still arguably not as elegant as
>>> 
>>> Doc, note: I dissent. A fast never prevents a fatness. I diet on cod.
>>> 
>>> =97unless we=92re insisting that the words themselves as well as the 
>>> let=
> ters
>>> satisfy palindromicity, which of course would also rule out "A man, a 
>>> pl=
> an,
>>> a canal=97Panama!=94, not to mention the ur-palindrome =93Madam, 
>>> I=92m A=
> dam=94.
>>> 
>>> LH
>>> 
>>>> On Apr 6, 2021, at 4:23 AM, Stephen Goranson <goranson at DUKE.EDU> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Classical Journal, 1819, p365 [HathiTrust] gives an earlier version,
>>> without the &, without the extra L, without the attribution to Taylor 
>>> (w=
> ho,
>>> or a contemporary, arguably, could have used the short spelling dwel):
>>>> 
>>>> Lewd I did live, evil did I dwel.
>>>> 
>>>> Stephen Goranson
>>>> http://people.duke.edu/~goranson/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
>>> James Eric Lawson <jel at NVENTURE.COM>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:38 AM
>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Subject: Re: Able Was I Ere I Saw Elba
>>>> 
>>>> The "'water poet' Taylor" was John Taylor, died 1654 according to 
>>>> this
>>>> account:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=3D
>>> mdp=
> .39015027615551&view=3D1up&seq=3D484&q1=3Dwater*20poet__;JQ!!OToaGQ!-u9b9w-=
> iqKxA-E-I76T76YMi6C4LDR_SuQCRAb2P1HtF5ymeoM-rDosrPnaWyElN$
>>>> 
>>>> J.T.R. is a tougher nut to crack. My efforts bore no immediate fruit.
>>>> 
>>>> On 4/5/21 10:47 PM, Pete Morris wrote:
>>>>> It's arguably the most famous palindrome in English. It is 
>>>>> certainly the first one I  ever heard. When my father introduced me 
>>>>> to the concept at a young age, this is the example he used.
>>>>> 
>>>>> According to wikiquote:  (Section on Napoleon)
>>>>> 
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Napoleon_I_
>>> of_=
> France*Misattributed__;Iw!!OToaGQ!-u9b9w-iqKxA-E-I76T76YMi6C4LDR_SuQCRAb2P1=
> HtF5ymeoM-rDosrPiRu-yI_$
>>>>> 
>>>>> <<<         The earliest publication yet located of this famous
>>> palindrome
>>>>> is in the "Witty and Whimsical" section of The Saturday Reader, 
>>>>> Vol. I=
> I,
>>>>> No. 30 (31 March 1866), p. 64:
>>>>> 
>>>>>      It is said that Napoleon, when asked by Dr. O'Meara if he 
>>>>> really thought he could have invaded England at the time he  
>>>>> threatened to do so, replied in the following ingenious anagram 
>>>>> [sic]: =97 "Able was=
> I
>>>>> ere I saw Elba." The reader will Observe that it reads the same 
>>>>> backwa=
> rd
>>>>> or forward.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here's an earlier citation from July 8 1848, which credits the 
>>>>> person who may have created it, and another  ingenious example.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tinyurl.com/fvu29s2d__;!!OToaGQ!-
>>> u9b=
> 9w-iqKxA-E-I76T76YMi6C4LDR_SuQCRAb2P1HtF5ymeoM-rDosrPr9AjgUD$
>>>>> 
>>>>> Their friend J.T.R. of Baltimore draws their attention to the 
>>>>> followin=
> g
>>>>> created by the "Water poet Taylor",which had drawn considerable
>>> attention.
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Lewd did I live & evil I did dwell"    [shame about the extra l ]
>>>>> 
>>>>> J.T.R. responded with two of his own:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Snug & raw was I ere I saw war & guns"
>>>>> "Able was I ere I saw Elba"
>>>>> 
>>>>> The editors are slightly critical of his use of & instead of 'and', 
>>>>> bu=
> t
>>>>> find his second effort to be near perfection.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Perhaps some further study of back issues might reveal the full 
>>>>> names of Taylor and J.T.R.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> James Eric Lawson
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society -
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.americandialect.org__;!!OToaGQ
>>> !-u=
> 9b9w-iqKxA-E-I76T76YMi6C4LDR_SuQCRAb2P1HtF5ymeoM-rDosrPmPANDsQ$
>>>> 
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