[Ads-l] background of a quote

Mon Nov 1 18:08:46 UTC 2021

Great work, Fred and Ben. I think Bill's discovery that Gilbert
Shelton disclaimed credit for the saying is the most intriguing
finding.

Date: Oct 25 – Nov 7, 1969
Periodical: Space City News
Periodical Location: Houston, Texas
Article: Komix King: the fabulous furry gilbert shelton
Quote Page 17, Column 2
https://archive.org/details/spacecitynews01spac_7/page/17/mode/1up?q=%22times+of+no+dope%22

[Begin excerpt]
RAT: So, then, the Freak Brothers is kind of like drawing about your
friends, isn’t it?

GS: Oh, yes. One of my friends in Austin gave me the line, "Dope will
get you through times of no money better than money will get you
through times of no dope."
[End excerpt]

Wikiquote has another variant based on the template:
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Anne_Herbert_(writer)

[Begin excerpt]
Libraries will get you through times of no money better than money
will get you through times of no libraries.
"The Next Whole Earth Catalog", (1980), p 331. (Derived from the
Gilbert Shelton quote, "Dope will get you through times of no money
better than money will get you through times of no dope."
[End excerpt]

Garson

On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 1:46 PM Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Even earlier still (evidently the same comic later published in The Fifth
> Estate and Space City News):
>
> The Rag, May 6, 1968, p. 6
> https://www.jstor.org/stable/community.28043073?seq=6#metadata_info_tab_contents
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 1:32 PM Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu> wrote:
>
> > Here's an earlier citation:
> >
> > 1968 The Fifth Estate June 4-18, page 21 [Gilbert Shelton, "Those Loveable
> > Furry Freak Brothers"] (JSTOR)  Grass will carry you through times of no
> > money better than money will carry you through times of no grass !
> >
> > Fred Shapiro
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 1:28 PM Bill Mullins <amcombill at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > The earliest I had found when I raised the question was
> >
> >
> > https://archive.org/details/spacecitynews01spac_7/page/17/mode/1up?q=%22times+of+no+dope%22
> >
> > (Space City News, 10/1969) which includes a partial reprint of the comix
> > version ("Grass will carry you  . . . "), and an interview with Gilbert
> > Shelton in which he states the "Dope will get you . . . " version (which he
> > says get got from a third party in Austin).
> >
> > This:
> >
> >
> > https://archive.org/details/tales-from-the-ozone-001-1969-c-2c-pyramid/page/n17/mode/1up?q=%22times+of+no+grass%22
> >
> > may be the original -- Tales from the Ozone, which includes the Freak
> > Brothers cartoon with the "Grass will carry you . . . " version.  Like many
> > underground comix, there is no publisher's indicia with publication date.
> > However, the back cover carries ads for concerts in Detroit Michigan which
> > occurred in early Apr. 1969 (confirmed in newspapers.com), so presumably
> > the comic is no later than Mar 1969.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----
> >
> > Here are two slightly earlier citations for the "dope" version of the
> > quotation. "The Great Speckled Bird" underground newspaper reprinted a
> > single panel from a comic (not the full comic). To me it looks like
> > the panel is from the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers. The panel has a
> > word balloon containing the quotation. Bill suggested this comic was
> > the origin. The second citation below gives the precise title of one
> > of the comics containing the quotation (although it might appear in an
> > earlier comic).
> >
> > Date: May 26, 1969
> > Periodical; The Great Speckled Bird
> > Volume 2, Number 11
> > Quote Page 10,
> > Database: JSTOR
> > Description: Word balloon from a single panel of a comic
> > Caution-https://www.jstor.org/stable/community.28037611
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > ... WE HAVE PLENTY OF GRASS AND AS WE ALL KNOW, DOPE WILL GET YOU
> > THROUGH TIMES OF NO MONEY BETTER THAN MONEY WILL GET YOU THROUGH TIMES
> > OF NO DOPE!
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > An article in "The East Village Other" described the contents of a
> > comic titled "Those Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers Pull A Heist" which
> > apparently included a panel with the target quotation. This instance
> > used the variant spelling "thru" for "through".
> >
> > Date: July 30, 1969
> > Periodical: The East Village Other
> > Publication Location: New York, New York
> > Volume 4, Number 35
> > Article: Wonder Wart, Hog's Father
> > Caution-https://www.jstor.org/stable/community.28035902
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > What happens, see, is that the Brothers have run out of money,
> > prompting Frank to disburden himself of this gem of folk wisdom: "As
> > we all know, DOPE get you thru times of no MONEY better than money
> > will get you thru times of no DOPE!!”
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 11:19 AM Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > The New Yale Book of Quotations has the following:
> > >
> > > Dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get
> > you through times of no dope.
> > > Quoted in The Rag (Austin, Tex.), 24 Nov. 1969
> > >
> > > Fred Shapiro
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> > Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at GMAIL.COM>
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2021 9:14 PM
> > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Subject: Re: background of a quote
> > >
> > > Another variation on the theme: "Love will get you through times of no
> > sex
> > > better than sex will get you through times of no love," from Tom Rapp's
> > > song "Love/Sex" (on his 1973 album "Sunforest").
> > >
> > > On Sun, Oct 31, 2021 at 9:09 PM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Love will get you through times of no money better than money will
> > get you
> > > > through times of no love"
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Oct 31, 2021 at 8:55 PM Mark Mandel <markamandel at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > But notice the swapping of order /superiority between the two
> > quotations.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mark A. Mandel
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Oct 31, 2021, 8:40 PM Bill Mullins <amcombill at hotmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Sometime before 1984, Jerry Pournelle (an SF author who was a NYT
> > > > > > bestseller but never won a Hugo award) said "Money will get you
> > through
> > > > > > times of no Hugos better than Hugos will get you through times of
> > no
> > > > > money."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He was preceded by cartoonist Gilbert Shelton, whose character
> > > > > > Freewheelin' Franklin Freak (of the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers)
> > said
> > > > > > "Grass will carry you through times of no money better than money
> > will
> > > > > > carry you through times of no grass." (1969 or before) (usually
> > quoted
> > > > as
> > > > > > "dope will get you through  . . .")
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is the Dope/grass version the ur-text?  or are they both riffing
> > off
> > > > > > something earlier, of which I am not aware?
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - Caution-
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> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
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> >
>
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