[Ads-l] background of a quote

Mon Nov 1 17:45:47 UTC 2021

Even earlier still (evidently the same comic later published in The Fifth
Estate and Space City News):

The Rag, May 6, 1968, p. 6
https://www.jstor.org/stable/community.28043073?seq=6#metadata_info_tab_contents

On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 1:32 PM Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu> wrote:

> Here's an earlier citation:
>
> 1968 The Fifth Estate June 4-18, page 21 [Gilbert Shelton, "Those Loveable
> Furry Freak Brothers"] (JSTOR)  Grass will carry you through times of no
> money better than money will carry you through times of no grass !
>
> Fred Shapiro

On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 1:28 PM Bill Mullins <amcombill at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> The earliest I had found when I raised the question was
>
>
> https://archive.org/details/spacecitynews01spac_7/page/17/mode/1up?q=%22times+of+no+dope%22
>
> (Space City News, 10/1969) which includes a partial reprint of the comix
> version ("Grass will carry you  . . . "), and an interview with Gilbert
> Shelton in which he states the "Dope will get you . . . " version (which he
> says get got from a third party in Austin).
>
> This:
>
>
> https://archive.org/details/tales-from-the-ozone-001-1969-c-2c-pyramid/page/n17/mode/1up?q=%22times+of+no+grass%22
>
> may be the original -- Tales from the Ozone, which includes the Freak
> Brothers cartoon with the "Grass will carry you . . . " version.  Like many
> underground comix, there is no publisher's indicia with publication date.
> However, the back cover carries ads for concerts in Detroit Michigan which
> occurred in early Apr. 1969 (confirmed in newspapers.com), so presumably
> the comic is no later than Mar 1969.
>
>
>
>
> ----
>
> Here are two slightly earlier citations for the "dope" version of the
> quotation. "The Great Speckled Bird" underground newspaper reprinted a
> single panel from a comic (not the full comic). To me it looks like
> the panel is from the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers. The panel has a
> word balloon containing the quotation. Bill suggested this comic was
> the origin. The second citation below gives the precise title of one
> of the comics containing the quotation (although it might appear in an
> earlier comic).
>
> Date: May 26, 1969
> Periodical; The Great Speckled Bird
> Volume 2, Number 11
> Quote Page 10,
> Database: JSTOR
> Description: Word balloon from a single panel of a comic
> Caution-https://www.jstor.org/stable/community.28037611
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> ... WE HAVE PLENTY OF GRASS AND AS WE ALL KNOW, DOPE WILL GET YOU
> THROUGH TIMES OF NO MONEY BETTER THAN MONEY WILL GET YOU THROUGH TIMES
> OF NO DOPE!
> [End excerpt]
>
> An article in "The East Village Other" described the contents of a
> comic titled "Those Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers Pull A Heist" which
> apparently included a panel with the target quotation. This instance
> used the variant spelling "thru" for "through".
>
> Date: July 30, 1969
> Periodical: The East Village Other
> Publication Location: New York, New York
> Volume 4, Number 35
> Article: Wonder Wart, Hog's Father
> Caution-https://www.jstor.org/stable/community.28035902
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> What happens, see, is that the Brothers have run out of money,
> prompting Frank to disburden himself of this gem of folk wisdom: "As
> we all know, DOPE get you thru times of no MONEY better than money
> will get you thru times of no DOPE!!”
> [End excerpt]
>
> On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 11:19 AM Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> > The New Yale Book of Quotations has the following:
> >
> > Dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get
> you through times of no dope.
> > Quoted in The Rag (Austin, Tex.), 24 Nov. 1969
> >
> > Fred Shapiro
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at GMAIL.COM>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2021 9:14 PM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: background of a quote
> >
> > Another variation on the theme: "Love will get you through times of no
> sex
> > better than sex will get you through times of no love," from Tom Rapp's
> > song "Love/Sex" (on his 1973 album "Sunforest").
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 31, 2021 at 9:09 PM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > "Love will get you through times of no money better than money will
> get you
> > > through times of no love"
> > >
> > > On Sun, Oct 31, 2021 at 8:55 PM Mark Mandel <markamandel at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > But notice the swapping of order /superiority between the two
> quotations.
> > > >
> > > > Mark A. Mandel
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Oct 31, 2021, 8:40 PM Bill Mullins <amcombill at hotmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Sometime before 1984, Jerry Pournelle (an SF author who was a NYT
> > > > > bestseller but never won a Hugo award) said "Money will get you
> through
> > > > > times of no Hugos better than Hugos will get you through times of
> no
> > > > money."
> > > > >
> > > > > He was preceded by cartoonist Gilbert Shelton, whose character
> > > > > Freewheelin' Franklin Freak (of the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers)
> said
> > > > > "Grass will carry you through times of no money better than money
> will
> > > > > carry you through times of no grass." (1969 or before) (usually
> quoted
> > > as
> > > > > "dope will get you through  . . .")
> > > > >
> > > > > Is the Dope/grass version the ur-text?  or are they both riffing
> off
> > > > > something earlier, of which I am not aware?
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
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