[Ads-l] [Non-DoD Source] Re: "man" avoidance

Dan Goncharoff thegonch at GMAIL.COM
Fri Jul 22 15:26:09 UTC 2022


For me, the only similarity between "straw man" and "stalking horse" is
they are old phrases relating to argument and debate that writers today
apparently don't understand bad misuse.

A "straw man" is a generalized creation of an opponent and their views:
"All Democrats are Communists." It can be more detailed than that, but it
tends to exaggerate the views of the other side.

A stalking horse is a real person proposing a controversial view. A
stalking horse can be acting intentionally or seriously be in favor of the
contraversial view. It doesn't matter.

I expect many of the people clamoring for "defund the police" meant it. For
more moderate politicians it was a "stalking horse". When it proved to be
unpopular it was dropped.

I am sure many of the people clamoring for universal health care also meant
it. It was a "stalking horse" for a more moderate expansion of healthcare,
which was popular enough to get passed as the ACA.

On Fri, Jul 22, 2022, 10:54 AM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:

> It's not really used much as a term in argumentation, as far as I know, but
> there is a connection with "straw man/person" arguments. The wikipedia site
> for "stalking horse" gives a good synopsis at
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking_horse
>
> Note especially the political examples:
>
> =============
>
> The phenomenon occurs particularly in politics, where a junior politician
> acts as the stalking horse to promote the interests of a senior politician,
> who remains unseen in case the actions would damage him or her but
> nevertheless wants to provoke a debate or challenge to a party colleague.
> In some cases, stalking horses are not working for a particular individual
> but may wish to provoke a response that leads others to join in. In
> politics, the truth about the relationship between an individual stalking
> horse and a candidate may never be known, as both sides may claim that the
> (alleged) stalking horse acted without the agreement of anyone else.
>
> For example, in Britain, the elderly and largely unknown back-bench
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backbencher> politician Anthony Meyer
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Anthony_Meyer,_3rd_Baronet> challenged
> and helped to bring about the eventual resignation of Margaret Thatcher
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Thatcher> in the Conservative
> Party
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)> leadership.
>
> In American politics, George W. Romney
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Romney> believed that Nelson
> Rockefeller <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Rockefeller> had used
> him
> as a stalking horse in the 1968 Republican Party presidential primaries
> <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_1968
> >
>  by promising support, then not providing it and hinting at his own entry
> into the campaign.
>
> =============
>
> I'd venture that the stalking horse has in common with (let's say) the
> straw man is the insincerity and hidden agenda of the perpetrator.
> Different circumstances, but close enough for confusion or conflation to
> arise. (One difference is that someone engaged in misinformation but not
> disinformation can unknowingly present arguments against a straw man, while
> presumably you can't be a stalking horse for someone without knowing that
> you are.)
>
> LH
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 8:26 AM Amy West <medievalist at w-sts.com> wrote:
>
> > On 6/26/22 00:00, ADS-L automatic digest system wrote:
> > > Date:    Sat, 25 Jun 2022 15:40:10 -0400
> > > From:    Laurence Horn<laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> > > Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: "man" avoidance
> > >
> > > But in particular (unlike the use of e.g. "a straw person argument"),
> > this
> > > is a likely blend (or confusion) of "straw man" and "stalking horse"
> >
> > Catching up on old e-mail: What's a "stalking horse", esp. in arguments?
> >
> > ---Amy West
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org


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