[Ads-l] [Non-DoD Source] Re: "man" avoidance

[Jonathan Lighter]

MW. "stalking horse":

1 : a horse or a figure like a horse behind which a hunter stalks game

2: something used to mask a purpose

3: a candidate put forward to divide the opposition or to conceal someone's
real candidacy


"Straw man":

1: a weak or imaginary opposition (such as an argument or adversary) set up
only to be easily confuted

2: a person set up to serve as a cover for a usually questionable
transaction


JL

On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 11:26 AM Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com> wrote:

> For me, the only similarity between "straw man" and "stalking horse" is
> they are old phrases relating to argument and debate that writers today
> apparently don't understand bad misuse.
>
> A "straw man" is a generalized creation of an opponent and their views:
> "All Democrats are Communists." It can be more detailed than that, but it
> tends to exaggerate the views of the other side.
>
> A stalking horse is a real person proposing a controversial view. A
> stalking horse can be acting intentionally or seriously be in favor of the
> contraversial view. It doesn't matter.
>
> I expect many of the people clamoring for "defund the police" meant it. For
> more moderate politicians it was a "stalking horse". When it proved to be
> unpopular it was dropped.
>
> I am sure many of the people clamoring for universal health care also meant
> it. It was a "stalking horse" for a more moderate expansion of healthcare,
> which was popular enough to get passed as the ACA.
>
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2022, 10:54 AM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > It's not really used much as a term in argumentation, as far as I know,
> but
> > there is a connection with "straw man/person" arguments. The wikipedia
> site
> > for "stalking horse" gives a good synopsis at
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking_horse
> >
> > Note especially the political examples:
> >
> > =============
> >
> > The phenomenon occurs particularly in politics, where a junior politician
> > acts as the stalking horse to promote the interests of a senior
> politician,
> > who remains unseen in case the actions would damage him or her but
> > nevertheless wants to provoke a debate or challenge to a party colleague.
> > In some cases, stalking horses are not working for a particular
> individual
> > but may wish to provoke a response that leads others to join in. In
> > politics, the truth about the relationship between an individual stalking
> > horse and a candidate may never be known, as both sides may claim that
> the
> > (alleged) stalking horse acted without the agreement of anyone else.
> >
> > For example, in Britain, the elderly and largely unknown back-bench
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backbencher> politician Anthony Meyer
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Anthony_Meyer,_3rd_Baronet>
> challenged
> > and helped to bring about the eventual resignation of Margaret Thatcher
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Thatcher> in the Conservative
> > Party
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)> leadership.
> >
> > In American politics, George W. Romney
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Romney> believed that Nelson
> > Rockefeller <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Rockefeller> had used
> > him
> > as a stalking horse in the 1968 Republican Party presidential primaries
> > <
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_1968
> > >
> >  by promising support, then not providing it and hinting at his own entry
> > into the campaign.
> >
> > =============
> >
> > I'd venture that the stalking horse has in common with (let's say) the
> > straw man is the insincerity and hidden agenda of the perpetrator.
> > Different circumstances, but close enough for confusion or conflation to
> > arise. (One difference is that someone engaged in misinformation but not
> > disinformation can unknowingly present arguments against a straw man,
> while
> > presumably you can't be a stalking horse for someone without knowing that
> > you are.)
> >
> > LH
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 8:26 AM Amy West <medievalist at w-sts.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On 6/26/22 00:00, ADS-L automatic digest system wrote:
> > > > Date:    Sat, 25 Jun 2022 15:40:10 -0400
> > > > From:    Laurence Horn<laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: "man" avoidance
> > > >
> > > > But in particular (unlike the use of e.g. "a straw person argument"),
> > > this
> > > > is a likely blend (or confusion) of "straw man" and "stalking horse"
> > >
> > > Catching up on old e-mail: What's a "stalking horse", esp. in
> arguments?
> > >
> > > ---Amy West
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>


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