[Ads-l] Possible precursor to Huxley (1885) on witnesses as liars, experts

[ADSGarson O'Toole]

Stephen has indicated that the statement "three classes of
witnesses—liars, d----d liars, and experts" appeared in "Life and
Letters of Thomas Henry Huxley" (1900). The pertinent passage stated
that this phrase was recorded in the minutes of a meeting of "The X
Club" on December 5, 1885. The phrasing suggested that Huxley recorded
the minutes.

I conjecture that someone at the meeting on December 5, 1885 used the
phrase "three classes of witnesses—liars, d----d liars, and experts",
and it was recorded in the minutes by Huxley.

The members of "The X Club" were scientists, and one of them may have
seen a nearly identical statement in the scientific journal "Nature"
on November 26, 1885. The statement in "Nature" was "a judge, once
grouped witnesses into three classes: simple liars, damned liars, and
experts".

The passage in the "Life and Letters of Thomas Henry Huxley" (1900) is
somewhat difficult (for me) to parse because it contains a
parenthetical remark embedded within a quotation, and the
parenthetical remark contains another quoted phrase using the same
delimiters. The parenthetical remark seems to refer to the future
month of February. To make sense of this, I think the parenthetical
remark did not appear in the original minutes. Here is the pertinent
passage,

[ref] 1900, Life and Letters of Thomas Henry Huxley, edited by Leonard
Huxley, Volume 1 of 2, Chapter 18: 1864, Quote Page 257 and 258,
Macmillan and Company, London.  (HathiTrust Full View) link [/ref]

https://hdl.handle.net/2027/hvd.32044066257148?urlappend=%3Bseq=282%3Bownerid=27021597765924638-288

[Begin excerpt]
They dined together on the first Thursday in each month, except July,
August, and September, before the meeting of the Royal Society, of
which all were members excepting Mr. Spencer, the usual dining hour
being six, so that they should be in good time for the society’s
meeting at eight; and a minute of December 5, 1885, when Huxley was
treasurer and revived the ancient custom of making some note of the
conversation, throws light on the habits of the club. “Got scolded,”
he writes, “for dining at 6.30. Had to prove we have dined at 6.30 for
a long time by evidence of waiter. (At the February meeting, however,
“agreed to fix dinner hour six hereafter.”) Talked politics, scandal,
and the three classes of witnesses—liars d----d liars, and experts.
Huxley gave account of civil list pension. Sat to the unexampled hour
of 10 P.M., except Lubbock who had to go to Linnaean.”
[End excerpt]

Garson

On Sun, Mar 13, 2022 at 12:00 PM Stephen Goranson <goranson at duke.edu> wrote:
>
> As previously noted:
>
> "Talked politics, scandal, and the three classes of witnesses—liars, d—d liars, and experts. Huxley gave account of civil list pension."
>
> Huxley, Leonard, The Life and Letters of Thomas Henry Huxley (2 vols), London: Macmillan 1900, Vol. I, pp. 255, 257–258.
>
>
>
> An earlier book, in many editions (here using hathitrust from 1881) discussed “classes of witnesses” including “the lying witness” and “the expert witness,” “Experts of every variety have pet crochets, theories, and systems….” P. 73,
>
> Hints on advocacy, intended for practitioners in civil and criminal courts :
> with suggestions as to opening a case, examination-in-chief, cross-examination, re-examination, reply, conduct of a prosecution and of a defense, etc., and illustrative cases /
> by Richard Harris.
> Main Author:
> Harris, Richard, 1833-1906.<https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Search/Home?lookfor=%22Harris,%20Richard,%201833-1906.%22&type=author&inst=>
> Related Names:
> Murfree, William Law 1817-1892.<https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Search/Home?lookfor=%22Murfree,%20William%20Law%22&type=author&inst=>
> Language(s):
> English
> Published:
> St. Louis, Mo. : W.H. Stevenson, 1881.
> Edition:
> 2d American from the 4th English ed. Rev. and enl. /
>
> SG
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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