[Ads-l] Word: pantser, seat-of-the-pants, seat-of-the-pantser

Tue Mar 29 20:13:21 UTC 2022

Excellent work, Ben.
Here is an instance of de-pantsing in 1926.

Date: June 8, 1926
Newspaper: Daily News
Newspaper Location: New York, New York
Article: TROUSERS STUNT THUGS GLEAN $163
Quote Page 8, Column 3
Database: Newspapers.com

[Begin excerpt]
Thugs, adopting the new de-pantsing method now in vogue in best
criminal circles, shook down James McKinley, manager of the Park Motor
Sales company at 563 East 149th st., for $163. Getting his roll, they
divested him of his trousers, which they used to bind his legs. Then,
tossing him under a display car, they fled.
[End excerpt]

Garson

On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 3:51 PM Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From the archives...
>
> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2012-July/120672.html
> From: Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at babel.ling.upenn.edu>
> Date: Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 10:17 PM
> Subject: de-pantsing (1930), pantsing (1931)
> To: <ADS-L at listserv.uga.edu>
>
> Forrest Wickman has a Slate Explainer about "pantsing" -- formerly
> called "debagging" or "depantsing":
>
> http://www.slate.com/articles/life/explainer/2012/07/where_did_pantsing_come_from_.html
>
> I supplied him with some cites from Genealogybank that antedate the OED
> entries:
>
> * de(-)pants, v. (OED3 1939)
>
> 1930  _Tampa Morning Tribune_ 4 Feb. 8/4 Depantsing an Officer. Mrs.
> Anna Rubenstein of 408 Harrison avenue, South End, paid an aggregate
> fine of $245, of which part was for tearing the trousers off of
> Officer Arthur D. Timmins. [reprinted from Boston Dispatch]
>
> 1930 _Rockford (Ill.) Daily Republic_ 21 Feb. 1/8 With the arrest of
> Miss Lois Cohen, 18, and her companion, Francis Hoffman, who have
> admitted 40 robberies of filling stations, police said today they
> believed they had the pair who has been "de-pantsing" taxicab drivers.
>
> * pants, vbl. n. (OED3 1943)
>
> 1931 _Riverside (Calif.) Daily Press_ 11 June 6/2 "Pantsing" was
> declared as a weapon of defense and offense. To have one's pants taken
> off or ripped off is the deadliest insult an opponent could suffer,
> and many were insulted more than once last night.
>
> * pants, v.  (OED3 1972)
>
> 1931 _Riverside (Calif.) Daily Press_ 11 June 6/3 One battle yell was
> used by both sides and it struck terror into those against whom it was
> hurled -- "Pants 'em."
>
> --bgz
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 3:38 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for your responses, MAM and LH.
> >
> > "pants" and "depants" are a pair of words that look like antonyms but
> > are actually synonyms.
> >
> > Green’s Dictionary of Slang has the following citation for "pants"
> > with the sense mentioned by LH.
> > https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/cpga4dq
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > pants v.
> > (mainly juv.) to remove someone’s trousers whether they like it or not.
> >
> > 1945 [US] in G. Legman Limerick (1953) 339: He’d catch something neat
> > / In a Pullman retreat, / Say ‘How do you do?’ and then pants it.
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > Here is a citation for "depants" which I am sure can be antedated.
> >
> > Year: 2005
> > Title: Bullying From Both Sides
> > Author: Walter B. Roberts, Jr.
> > Quote Page 85
> > Database: Google Books Preview
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > At some point during the delay, a decision was made to depants one of
> > the new team members. A ruckus ensued at the back of the bus and soon,
> > after quite a struggle, the deed was completed.
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > Garson
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 11:33 AM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > or "pantser" = 'one who pants' (from the transitive verb "to pants",
> > which
> > > I learned in summer camp, not the intransitive "to pant").
> > >
> > > Merriam-Webster online, s.v. "pants":
> > >
> > > transitive verb <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transitive>
> > > US,  informal : to yank down the pants of (someone) as a prank or
> > jokeSandler
> > > plays Dave Buznik, a Brooklyn-born wimp, a patsy, a schlemiel so
> > > mild-mannered he makes other people want to pants him.
> > > No separate entry for the agentive noun, but it's a productive process...
> > > LH
> > >
> > > On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 11:19 AM Mark Mandel <markamandel at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Not to be confused with "Panzer".
> > > >
> > > > MAM
> > > > gdaravvf*
> > > >
> > > > * grin, duck, and run away very very fast
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Mar 29, 2022, 6:04 AM ADSGarson O'Toole <
> > adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The lecturer in a YouTube video I watched recently discussed
> > different
> > > > > strategies for writing novels. A "plotter" creates a detailed outline
> > > > > specifying the characters and story arcs. A "pantser" uses a
> > > > > seat-of-the-pants methodology. The characters, events, and plot are
> > > > > discovered via the writing process.
> > > > >
> > > > > The word "pantser" is listed in neither the Oxford English Dictionary
> > > > > nor Green's Dictionary of Slang. The OED does have this entry:
> > > > >
> > > > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > > > seat-of-the-pants, adj.
> > > > > Of a person: tending to act instinctively, spontaneously, or
> > > > > expediently. Of an activity: done on the basis of practical
> > experience
> > > > > rather than technical knowledge; informal; inexact.
> > > > > [End excerpt]
> > > > >
> > > > > The OED's first citation for "seat-of-the-pants" is dated 1935. Here
> > > > > is a 1932 antedating.
> > > > >
> > > > > Date: July 3, 1932
> > > > > Newspaper: The Atlanta Constitution
> > > > > Newspaper Location: Atlanta, Georgia
> > > > > Article: Teaching the Pilot To Fly Blind
> > > > > Author: Hugh Sexton
> > > > > Section: Sunday Magazine
> > > > > Quote Page 4, Column 1
> > > > > Database: Newspapers.com
> > > > >
> > > > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > > > They all learned to fly, however, by the "seat of the pants" method,
> > > > > as they describe flying by instinct, and are starting all over again
> > > > > to learn the new instrument flying.
> > > > > [End excerpt]
> > > > >
> > > > > The phrase "seat-of-the-pantser" was in circulation by 1959 although
> > > > > the first spelling I encountered used a "z" instead of an "s". The
> > > > > domain was amateur driving at a sports car event:
> > > > >
> > > > > Date: October 28, 1959
> > > > > Newspaper: Oakland Tribune
> > > > > Newspaper Location:
> > > > > Article: Sports Car Events
> > > > > Quote Page 58D, Column 1 and 2
> > > > > Database: Newspapers.com
> > > > >
> > > > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > > > Rally: 1: Buccaneer's Rally. For seniors, novices,
> > Seat-of-the-Pantzers.
> > > > > [End excerpt]
> > > > >
> > > > > The first instance of "pantser" I located appeared in a 1994 book by
> > > > > entrepreneur Jim Schell. Schell created the word via truncation
> > > > > (although earlier instances may exist). He used the word in the
> > > > > business domain:
> > > > >
> > > > > [ref] 1994 (1993 Copyright), The Brass-Tacks Entrepreneur by Jim
> > > > > Schell, Chapter 1: Not Every Small Businessman Is an Entrepreneur,
> > > > > Quote Page 5 and 6, Henry Holt and Company, New York. (Verified with
> > > > > scans) [/ref]
> > > > >
> > > > > [Begin excerpt from page 5]
> > > > > My favorite? Seat-of-the-pantser. The Gospel of Basic Business
> > > > > Strategies According to Matulef: no policy manuals, no precedents, no
> > > > > logical order. As in, straight from the seat of the pants. OK,
> > > > > seat-of-the-pantser is too long, with too many syllables. We'll
> > > > > shorten it to pantser.
> > > > > [End excerpt]
> > > > >
> > > > > [Begin excerpt from page 6]
> > > > > The pantser is an unsophisticated, entry-level small business owner
> > > > > and is not to be confused with the more sophisticated entrepreneur.
> > > > > The pantser's primary business motivations are survival and
> > > > > sustenance, the entrepreneur's creativity and growth.
> > > > > [End excerpt]
> > > > >
> > > > > Garson O'Toole
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > >
> > > >
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> > >
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> >
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