[Ads-l] Word: pantser, seat-of-the-pants, seat-of-the-pantser

Tue Mar 29 19:50:46 UTC 2022

>From the archives...

http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2012-July/120672.html
From: Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at babel.ling.upenn.edu>
Date: Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 10:17 PM
Subject: de-pantsing (1930), pantsing (1931)
To: <ADS-L at listserv.uga.edu>

Forrest Wickman has a Slate Explainer about "pantsing" -- formerly
called "debagging" or "depantsing":

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/explainer/2012/07/where_did_pantsing_come_from_.html

I supplied him with some cites from Genealogybank that antedate the OED
entries:

* de(-)pants, v. (OED3 1939)

1930  _Tampa Morning Tribune_ 4 Feb. 8/4 Depantsing an Officer. Mrs.
Anna Rubenstein of 408 Harrison avenue, South End, paid an aggregate
fine of $245, of which part was for tearing the trousers off of
Officer Arthur D. Timmins. [reprinted from Boston Dispatch]

1930 _Rockford (Ill.) Daily Republic_ 21 Feb. 1/8 With the arrest of
Miss Lois Cohen, 18, and her companion, Francis Hoffman, who have
admitted 40 robberies of filling stations, police said today they
believed they had the pair who has been "de-pantsing" taxicab drivers.

* pants, vbl. n. (OED3 1943)

1931 _Riverside (Calif.) Daily Press_ 11 June 6/2 "Pantsing" was
declared as a weapon of defense and offense. To have one's pants taken
off or ripped off is the deadliest insult an opponent could suffer,
and many were insulted more than once last night.

* pants, v.  (OED3 1972)

1931 _Riverside (Calif.) Daily Press_ 11 June 6/3 One battle yell was
used by both sides and it struck terror into those against whom it was
hurled -- "Pants 'em."

--bgz

On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 3:38 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for your responses, MAM and LH.
>
> "pants" and "depants" are a pair of words that look like antonyms but
> are actually synonyms.
>
> Green’s Dictionary of Slang has the following citation for "pants"
> with the sense mentioned by LH.
> https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/cpga4dq
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> pants v.
> (mainly juv.) to remove someone’s trousers whether they like it or not.
>
> 1945 [US] in G. Legman Limerick (1953) 339: He’d catch something neat
> / In a Pullman retreat, / Say ‘How do you do?’ and then pants it.
> [End excerpt]
>
> Here is a citation for "depants" which I am sure can be antedated.
>
> Year: 2005
> Title: Bullying From Both Sides
> Author: Walter B. Roberts, Jr.
> Quote Page 85
> Database: Google Books Preview
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> At some point during the delay, a decision was made to depants one of
> the new team members. A ruckus ensued at the back of the bus and soon,
> after quite a struggle, the deed was completed.
> [End excerpt]
>
> Garson
>
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 11:33 AM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> > or "pantser" = 'one who pants' (from the transitive verb "to pants",
> which
> > I learned in summer camp, not the intransitive "to pant").
> >
> > Merriam-Webster online, s.v. "pants":
> >
> > transitive verb <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transitive>
> > US,  informal : to yank down the pants of (someone) as a prank or
> jokeSandler
> > plays Dave Buznik, a Brooklyn-born wimp, a patsy, a schlemiel so
> > mild-mannered he makes other people want to pants him.
> > No separate entry for the agentive noun, but it's a productive process...
> > LH
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 11:19 AM Mark Mandel <markamandel at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Not to be confused with "Panzer".
> > >
> > > MAM
> > > gdaravvf*
> > >
> > > * grin, duck, and run away very very fast
> > >
> > > On Tue, Mar 29, 2022, 6:04 AM ADSGarson O'Toole <
> adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com
> > > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > The lecturer in a YouTube video I watched recently discussed
> different
> > > > strategies for writing novels. A "plotter" creates a detailed outline
> > > > specifying the characters and story arcs. A "pantser" uses a
> > > > seat-of-the-pants methodology. The characters, events, and plot are
> > > > discovered via the writing process.
> > > >
> > > > The word "pantser" is listed in neither the Oxford English Dictionary
> > > > nor Green's Dictionary of Slang. The OED does have this entry:
> > > >
> > > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > > seat-of-the-pants, adj.
> > > > Of a person: tending to act instinctively, spontaneously, or
> > > > expediently. Of an activity: done on the basis of practical
> experience
> > > > rather than technical knowledge; informal; inexact.
> > > > [End excerpt]
> > > >
> > > > The OED's first citation for "seat-of-the-pants" is dated 1935. Here
> > > > is a 1932 antedating.
> > > >
> > > > Date: July 3, 1932
> > > > Newspaper: The Atlanta Constitution
> > > > Newspaper Location: Atlanta, Georgia
> > > > Article: Teaching the Pilot To Fly Blind
> > > > Author: Hugh Sexton
> > > > Section: Sunday Magazine
> > > > Quote Page 4, Column 1
> > > > Database: Newspapers.com
> > > >
> > > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > > They all learned to fly, however, by the "seat of the pants" method,
> > > > as they describe flying by instinct, and are starting all over again
> > > > to learn the new instrument flying.
> > > > [End excerpt]
> > > >
> > > > The phrase "seat-of-the-pantser" was in circulation by 1959 although
> > > > the first spelling I encountered used a "z" instead of an "s". The
> > > > domain was amateur driving at a sports car event:
> > > >
> > > > Date: October 28, 1959
> > > > Newspaper: Oakland Tribune
> > > > Newspaper Location:
> > > > Article: Sports Car Events
> > > > Quote Page 58D, Column 1 and 2
> > > > Database: Newspapers.com
> > > >
> > > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > > Rally: 1: Buccaneer's Rally. For seniors, novices,
> Seat-of-the-Pantzers.
> > > > [End excerpt]
> > > >
> > > > The first instance of "pantser" I located appeared in a 1994 book by
> > > > entrepreneur Jim Schell. Schell created the word via truncation
> > > > (although earlier instances may exist). He used the word in the
> > > > business domain:
> > > >
> > > > [ref] 1994 (1993 Copyright), The Brass-Tacks Entrepreneur by Jim
> > > > Schell, Chapter 1: Not Every Small Businessman Is an Entrepreneur,
> > > > Quote Page 5 and 6, Henry Holt and Company, New York. (Verified with
> > > > scans) [/ref]
> > > >
> > > > [Begin excerpt from page 5]
> > > > My favorite? Seat-of-the-pantser. The Gospel of Basic Business
> > > > Strategies According to Matulef: no policy manuals, no precedents, no
> > > > logical order. As in, straight from the seat of the pants. OK,
> > > > seat-of-the-pantser is too long, with too many syllables. We'll
> > > > shorten it to pantser.
> > > > [End excerpt]
> > > >
> > > > [Begin excerpt from page 6]
> > > > The pantser is an unsophisticated, entry-level small business owner
> > > > and is not to be confused with the more sophisticated entrepreneur.
> > > > The pantser's primary business motivations are survival and
> > > > sustenance, the entrepreneur's creativity and growth.
> > > > [End excerpt]
> > > >
> > > > Garson O'Toole
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >
> >
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> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
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