[Ads-l] "the skinny" redux

Wed Sep 21 16:56:02 UTC 2022

Since "skinny" meant physics and chemistry the transitional nuance may have
been the "science" of something or how it works. Naval aviators, e.g. might
be given the "skinny of flight."

Unless they'd been to Annapolis, this would be easily interpretable as "the
facts."

JL

On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 10:09 PM Grant Barrett <gbarrett at worldnewyork.org>
wrote:

> Ben, thanks for the extra cite showing earlier usage of "skinny"
> 'physics/chemistry."
>
> For those who are interested, the 1922 issue of "The Lucky Bag" has a
> two-page glossary of Naval Academy language.
>
> https://archive.org/details/luckybag1922unit/page/578/mode/2up
>
> GB
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 6:46 PM Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Looking forward to the "skinny" segment on your show, Grant. Here's a
> > (non-paywalled) link for my WSJ column from July, which I neglected to
> > share earlier.
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/skinny-a-stripped-down-bill-or-vital-gossip-11659045369?st=eo1ps9kqxrgons0&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
> >
> > Apologies to military sticklers for calling Naval Academy students
> "cadets"
> > rather than "midshipmen." I had been looking at historical sources that
> > called them "cadets," e.g.:
> >
> > Willis Boyd Allen, _Navy Blue: A Story of Cadet Life in the United States
> > Naval Academy at Annapolis_ (1898)
> > https://books.google.com/books?id=msi4p9alSOkC&printsec=frontcover
> >
> > ...but I see now that usage was phased out at Annapolis in the early 20th
> > century.
> >
> > --Ben
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 9:04 PM Grant Barrett <gbarrett at worldnewyork.org
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I'm looking into "the skinny" for an upcoming recording session and I
> > > followed "The Lucky Bag" trail you all have so nicely laid to this 1913
> > > edition of the yearbook, which includes a definition that very neatly,
> in
> > > my opinion, bridges the "physics/chemistry class/building" meaning of
> > > "skinny" at the Naval Academy and the modern "information" sense of
> "the
> > > skinny."
> > >
> > >
> https://archive.org/details/luckybag1913unit/page/296/mode/2up?q=skinny
> > >
> > > 1913 _The Lucky Bag_, United States Naval Academy, appendix B, p. 297:
> > > Skinny, n. A midshipman's slender knowledge of the Laws and Principles
> of
> > > physics; Doyle's Laws.
> > >
> > > Also, it wasn't clear from the thread here whether it was fully
> > appreciated
> > > that the 1932 citation in "The Lucky Bag" previously mentioned
> > accompanies,
> > > in the same issue, a use of "the Skinny Department." That kind of
> > > co-occurrence suggests, perhaps, a firm split in meaning by that point.
> > >
> > >
> https://archive.org/details/luckybag1932unse/page/218/mode/1up?q=skinny
> > >
> > > 1932 _The Lucky Bag_, United States Naval Academy, p. 218: Except for a
> > > skirmish with the Skinny Department, youngster year, Happy has always
> > been
> > > several jumps ahead.
> > >
> > > GB
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 1:13 PM Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 2:40 PM Stephen Goranson <goranson at duke.edu>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > 1922 Won for the Fleet: A Story of Annapolis, p. 114
> > > > >
> > > > >  Old Man , you're hung on the skinny tree ! " “ You mean I'm posted
> > > unsat
> > > > > . in Physics ? ”
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > That seems to be playing with the "thin" and "physics and chemistry"
> > > > meanings, without the later "information" meaning. See also:
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > https://archive.org/details/luckybag1905unse/page/204/mode/2up
> > > > Lucky Bag, 1905, "Foolish Dictionary of Slang"
> > > > p. 205:
> > > > Date, n. [A fruit — something plucked from the skinny tree, often
> > > > associated with peaches.]
> > > > (2) An engagement for trysting or anything else.
> > > > p. 207:
> > > > Skinny, n. (1)  An impolite way of saying ''She's as fat as a lead
> > > pencil."
> > > > (2) Physics and Chemistry.
> > > > ---
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf
> of
> > > Ben
> > > > > Zimmer <bgzimmer at GMAIL.COM>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2022 2:22 PM
> > > > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > > Subject: "the skinny" redux
> > > > >
> > > > > Back in 2019, Stephen Goranson started a thread on "the skinny" =
> > > > > "information, news, gossip," noting that "skinny" was US Naval
> > Academy
> > > > > slang for the physics and chemistry department.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2019-August/155333.html__;!!OToaGQ!o0nfK0KP04CGLIiSSgkv5BRLotTidZL7mu1Ozgk-ywtpVmf9dXepRRLsEdEcGSdqg6t_VwXZYcfVhBSa$
> > > > >
> > > > > Stephen gave various examples from Lucky Bag, the Naval Academy's
> > > > yearbook,
> > > > > but didn't include this one:
> > > > >
> > > > > ---
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://archive.org/details/luckybag1932unse/page/142/mode/1up?q=skinny__;!!OToaGQ!o0nfK0KP04CGLIiSSgkv5BRLotTidZL7mu1Ozgk-ywtpVmf9dXepRRLsEdEcGSdqg6t_VwXZYcZpqCn3$
> > > > > Lucky Bag, 1932, p. 142
> > > > > [Student bio of Harold Edward Baker]
> > > > > If you don't get the skinny of things, Eddie can usually set you
> > right.
> > > > > ---
> > > > >
> > > > > This cite is mentioned in a Grammarphobia post by Patricia T.
> > O'Conner
> > > > and
> > > > > Stewart Kellerman. The entry was originally posted on Grammarphobia
> > in
> > > > Jan.
> > > > > 2011 but was updated in June 2021.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2011/01/skinny-2.html__;!!OToaGQ!o0nfK0KP04CGLIiSSgkv5BRLotTidZL7mu1Ozgk-ywtpVmf9dXepRRLsEdEcGSdqg6t_VwXZYWiyzaXu$
> > > > >
> > > > > As Pat and Stewart suggest, this appears to be the earliest known
> > cite
> > > > for
> > > > > "the skinny" in the informational sense, antedating the 1938
> example
> > > > given
> > > > > by JL later in the 2019 thread (see below). The 1938 cite has also
> > been
> > > > > added to the OED's online entry.
> > > > >
> > > > > --bgz
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 5:54 PM Jonathan Lighter <
> > > wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > The earliest discovered exx. of "the skinny," acc. to HDAS,
> appear
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > adventure memoir, _The Rolling World_ (Boston: Houghton, 1938),
> by
> > > > > Richard
> > > > > > [Matthews] Hallet.  Hallet (1887-1967), from Boothbay Harbor,
> > Maine,
> > > > had
> > > > > > two degrees from Harvard when in 1912 he decided to ditch his law
> > > > career
> > > > > > and go to sea.  His book mainly covers the period of 1912 to
> about
> > > 1932
> > > > > and
> > > > > > recounts as well time he spent in Australia and Arizona.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hallet uses "the skinny" at least twice, in a book published
> > decades
> > > > > before
> > > > > > the term went mainstream. It seems significant, however, that the
> > > word
> > > > is
> > > > > > neither defined nor placed within quotes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > P. 287:  "But the elfin corners of Lehua's mouth suggested her
> gift
> > > of
> > > > > > improvisation. Had she really given me the skinny of an actual
> > legend
> > > > > from
> > > > > > the archives of her race, or was she wafting me the native poetry
> > of
> > > > her
> > > > > > soul?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > P. 332:  "We lit our pipes.  I gave him the skinny of a yarn I
> had
> > > > > written
> > > > > > of this western country. It was called 'The Snap of the Cap,' and
> > had
> > > > to
> > > > > do
> > > > > > with a man who had fallen in love with a girl out here somewhere
> in
> > > > these
> > > > > > mountains."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What may also be significant is that both exx. are "assigned" to
> > the
> > > > > period
> > > > > > after 1928, when Hallet accompanied Navy Secretary Curtis Wilbur
> to
> > > > Pearl
> > > > > > Harbor in the battleship _California_. (He met "Lehua" on Oahu.)
> It
> > > is
> > > > > thus
> > > > > > possible that Hallet picked up a word that already had notable
> > > currency
> > > > > in
> > > > > > the Navy, or at least in _California_.  That could explain the
> > > absence
> > > > of
> > > > > > definition or quotation marks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But so could a lot of things.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The ex. on p. 287 is easily interpreted as "the real truth," as
> is
> > > now
> > > > > > common, but the second ex. is not; there "the skinny" seems to
> > mean,
> > > > more
> > > > > > precisely, the (bare?) basic facts.  Get it? "Skin-ny."   (Don't
> > > blame
> > > > > me;
> > > > > > I didn't make the usage up.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Of course, the pre-existing naval currency of "Skinny"  at
> > Annapolis
> > > as
> > > > > > "physics and chemistry" ("hard sciences" as Stephen observes)
> > > wouldn't
> > > > > have
> > > > > > hurt the rise of the new meaning.
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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