[Ads-l] "the skinny" redux

Wed Sep 21 02:08:26 UTC 2022

Ben, thanks for the extra cite showing earlier usage of "skinny"
'physics/chemistry."

For those who are interested, the 1922 issue of "The Lucky Bag" has a
two-page glossary of Naval Academy language.

https://archive.org/details/luckybag1922unit/page/578/mode/2up

GB

On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 6:46 PM Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:

> Looking forward to the "skinny" segment on your show, Grant. Here's a
> (non-paywalled) link for my WSJ column from July, which I neglected to
> share earlier.
>
>
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/skinny-a-stripped-down-bill-or-vital-gossip-11659045369?st=eo1ps9kqxrgons0&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
>
> Apologies to military sticklers for calling Naval Academy students "cadets"
> rather than "midshipmen." I had been looking at historical sources that
> called them "cadets," e.g.:
>
> Willis Boyd Allen, _Navy Blue: A Story of Cadet Life in the United States
> Naval Academy at Annapolis_ (1898)
> https://books.google.com/books?id=msi4p9alSOkC&printsec=frontcover
>
> ...but I see now that usage was phased out at Annapolis in the early 20th
> century.
>
> --Ben
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 9:04 PM Grant Barrett <gbarrett at worldnewyork.org>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm looking into "the skinny" for an upcoming recording session and I
> > followed "The Lucky Bag" trail you all have so nicely laid to this 1913
> > edition of the yearbook, which includes a definition that very neatly, in
> > my opinion, bridges the "physics/chemistry class/building" meaning of
> > "skinny" at the Naval Academy and the modern "information" sense of "the
> > skinny."
> >
> > https://archive.org/details/luckybag1913unit/page/296/mode/2up?q=skinny
> >
> > 1913 _The Lucky Bag_, United States Naval Academy, appendix B, p. 297:
> > Skinny, n. A midshipman's slender knowledge of the Laws and Principles of
> > physics; Doyle's Laws.
> >
> > Also, it wasn't clear from the thread here whether it was fully
> appreciated
> > that the 1932 citation in "The Lucky Bag" previously mentioned
> accompanies,
> > in the same issue, a use of "the Skinny Department." That kind of
> > co-occurrence suggests, perhaps, a firm split in meaning by that point.
> >
> > https://archive.org/details/luckybag1932unse/page/218/mode/1up?q=skinny
> >
> > 1932 _The Lucky Bag_, United States Naval Academy, p. 218: Except for a
> > skirmish with the Skinny Department, youngster year, Happy has always
> been
> > several jumps ahead.
> >
> > GB
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 1:13 PM Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 2:40 PM Stephen Goranson <goranson at duke.edu>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > 1922 Won for the Fleet: A Story of Annapolis, p. 114
> > > >
> > > >  Old Man , you're hung on the skinny tree ! " “ You mean I'm posted
> > unsat
> > > > . in Physics ? ”
> > > >
> > >
> > > That seems to be playing with the "thin" and "physics and chemistry"
> > > meanings, without the later "information" meaning. See also:
> > >
> > > ---
> > > https://archive.org/details/luckybag1905unse/page/204/mode/2up
> > > Lucky Bag, 1905, "Foolish Dictionary of Slang"
> > > p. 205:
> > > Date, n. [A fruit — something plucked from the skinny tree, often
> > > associated with peaches.]
> > > (2) An engagement for trysting or anything else.
> > > p. 207:
> > > Skinny, n. (1)  An impolite way of saying ''She's as fat as a lead
> > pencil."
> > > (2) Physics and Chemistry.
> > > ---
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> > Ben
> > > > Zimmer <bgzimmer at GMAIL.COM>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2022 2:22 PM
> > > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Subject: "the skinny" redux
> > > >
> > > > Back in 2019, Stephen Goranson started a thread on "the skinny" =
> > > > "information, news, gossip," noting that "skinny" was US Naval
> Academy
> > > > slang for the physics and chemistry department.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2019-August/155333.html__;!!OToaGQ!o0nfK0KP04CGLIiSSgkv5BRLotTidZL7mu1Ozgk-ywtpVmf9dXepRRLsEdEcGSdqg6t_VwXZYcfVhBSa$
> > > >
> > > > Stephen gave various examples from Lucky Bag, the Naval Academy's
> > > yearbook,
> > > > but didn't include this one:
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://archive.org/details/luckybag1932unse/page/142/mode/1up?q=skinny__;!!OToaGQ!o0nfK0KP04CGLIiSSgkv5BRLotTidZL7mu1Ozgk-ywtpVmf9dXepRRLsEdEcGSdqg6t_VwXZYcZpqCn3$
> > > > Lucky Bag, 1932, p. 142
> > > > [Student bio of Harold Edward Baker]
> > > > If you don't get the skinny of things, Eddie can usually set you
> right.
> > > > ---
> > > >
> > > > This cite is mentioned in a Grammarphobia post by Patricia T.
> O'Conner
> > > and
> > > > Stewart Kellerman. The entry was originally posted on Grammarphobia
> in
> > > Jan.
> > > > 2011 but was updated in June 2021.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2011/01/skinny-2.html__;!!OToaGQ!o0nfK0KP04CGLIiSSgkv5BRLotTidZL7mu1Ozgk-ywtpVmf9dXepRRLsEdEcGSdqg6t_VwXZYWiyzaXu$
> > > >
> > > > As Pat and Stewart suggest, this appears to be the earliest known
> cite
> > > for
> > > > "the skinny" in the informational sense, antedating the 1938 example
> > > given
> > > > by JL later in the 2019 thread (see below). The 1938 cite has also
> been
> > > > added to the OED's online entry.
> > > >
> > > > --bgz
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 5:54 PM Jonathan Lighter <
> > wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The earliest discovered exx. of "the skinny," acc. to HDAS, appear
> in
> > > the
> > > > > adventure memoir, _The Rolling World_ (Boston: Houghton, 1938), by
> > > > Richard
> > > > > [Matthews] Hallet.  Hallet (1887-1967), from Boothbay Harbor,
> Maine,
> > > had
> > > > > two degrees from Harvard when in 1912 he decided to ditch his law
> > > career
> > > > > and go to sea.  His book mainly covers the period of 1912 to about
> > 1932
> > > > and
> > > > > recounts as well time he spent in Australia and Arizona.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hallet uses "the skinny" at least twice, in a book published
> decades
> > > > before
> > > > > the term went mainstream. It seems significant, however, that the
> > word
> > > is
> > > > > neither defined nor placed within quotes:
> > > > >
> > > > > P. 287:  "But the elfin corners of Lehua's mouth suggested her gift
> > of
> > > > > improvisation. Had she really given me the skinny of an actual
> legend
> > > > from
> > > > > the archives of her race, or was she wafting me the native poetry
> of
> > > her
> > > > > soul?
> > > > >
> > > > > P. 332:  "We lit our pipes.  I gave him the skinny of a yarn I had
> > > > written
> > > > > of this western country. It was called 'The Snap of the Cap,' and
> had
> > > to
> > > > do
> > > > > with a man who had fallen in love with a girl out here somewhere in
> > > these
> > > > > mountains."
> > > > >
> > > > > What may also be significant is that both exx. are "assigned" to
> the
> > > > period
> > > > > after 1928, when Hallet accompanied Navy Secretary Curtis Wilbur to
> > > Pearl
> > > > > Harbor in the battleship _California_. (He met "Lehua" on Oahu.) It
> > is
> > > > thus
> > > > > possible that Hallet picked up a word that already had notable
> > currency
> > > > in
> > > > > the Navy, or at least in _California_.  That could explain the
> > absence
> > > of
> > > > > definition or quotation marks.
> > > > >
> > > > > But so could a lot of things.
> > > > >
> > > > > The ex. on p. 287 is easily interpreted as "the real truth," as is
> > now
> > > > > common, but the second ex. is not; there "the skinny" seems to
> mean,
> > > more
> > > > > precisely, the (bare?) basic facts.  Get it? "Skin-ny."   (Don't
> > blame
> > > > me;
> > > > > I didn't make the usage up.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course, the pre-existing naval currency of "Skinny"  at
> Annapolis
> > as
> > > > > "physics and chemistry" ("hard sciences" as Stephen observes)
> > wouldn't
> > > > have
> > > > > hurt the rise of the new meaning.
> > > >
> >
>
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>

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