[Ads-l] The "Gay" Line in "Bringing Up Baby"

Sun Sep 25 19:51:26 UTC 2022

Wow!  These folks (tripleattackgrrl, Lysandra_Yaxley, et al.) seem to take
their disputes to a whole nother level compared with us, or did 11 years
ago, or maybe we've just mellowed.  Anyway, it struck me as odd that in
those discussions of a writer slipping a line into a movie that no more
than 1% or so of the audience would "get", nobody in the debate brought up
"gunsel" and the question of how Dashiell Hammett was able, through a
reference in The Maltese Falcon, to single-handedly change its meaning
(from 'young gay male' [from Yiddish gendzel 'little goose'] to 'gunman,
hood, thug'), as discussed in part by Michael Quinion at
https://www.worldwidewords.org/topicalwords/tw-gun1.htm and in more detail
by contributors to this list some twenty years ago.

LH

On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 11:16 AM Stephen Goranson <goranson at duke.edu> wrote:

> I have not read the article by Ron Butters, but did today watch the scene
> (on youtube).
> The argument that Grant, his character, would not have said (ad libbed,
> not in the shooting script, apparently) gay in the sense of homosexual for
> fear for his career might be weakened by the fact that he's wearing a
> dress. But wearing it under protest. And soon before the gay mention he
> says, as if to distance himself from speculation, "I'm not quite myself
> today." And his gesture when speaking gay signals to me that he, the
> character, is aware of speaking the absurdity of his character being such.
> Further, these movie actors may have been familiar with Noel Coward's use
> in 1929, including mention of a green carnation [maybe in reference to the
> book title], something Oscar Wilde sometimes wore, or if not Coward
> specifically, other such use within acting.
> Not proof, but maybe suggestive.
>
> scg
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>
> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2022 11:00 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: The "Gay" Line in "Bringing Up Baby"
>
> After sending my previous email, I re-read Ronald Butters' fine 1998
> article on "Cary Grant and the Emergence of Gay 'Homosexual.'"  I see that
> Butters does discuss the "42nd Street" line and argues that 42nd Street was
> well-known throughout the U.S. as a place where people were "carefree,
> colorful, energetically frivolous, hedonistic, fun."  Thus, in Butters'
> view, that line does not need to be interpreted as a reference to
> homosexuality.
>
> Fred Shapiro
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>
> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2022 9:14 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: The "Gay" Line in "Bringing Up Baby"
>
> I am thinking of writing an article about my discoveries of early uses of
> the term "gay" meaning "homosexual."  There is one point I am puzzling
> over, and perhaps people on this list can help me.
>
> Cary Grant's line (in the 1938 movie "Bringing Up Baby") about going "gay"
> all of a sudden, ad-libbed for a scene in which he is asked why he is
> wearing women's clothing, is often said to be an early, or the earliest,
> use of "gay" to mean "homosexual."  Some commentators, including the
> linguist Ronald Butters, have denied that this ad-lib could, as an
> "in-group" reference, have made it into a mainstream film and been uttered
> by someone Butters describes as a deeply closeted homosexual who might have
> been endangering his career with the utterance.
>
> My puzzlement has to do with character David Huxley's second line in the
> film dialogue:
>
>
> Mrs. Random <
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.imdb.com*2Fname*2Fnm0733480*2F*3Fref_*3Dtt_ch&data=05*7C01*7Cfred.shapiro*40YALE.EDU*7C0320c746e1a64f5de82c08da9ef7d523*7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c*7C0*7C0*7C637997084516017325*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*7C*7C*7C&sdata=*2BWqcU198Xa1L8RVMkMPc*2F5v8PoZXyhmIuTatmX5Adqs*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!OToaGQ!ooSW0g9Bvp0m2Ke6vc7YKFuz7a2C5bxs2JMZb8-_XQM78W5bE3_NSG_RGxRpJbDzrHrk0xWXI4W7O6pf-OAL-puN$
> > : But why are you wearing *these* clothes?
>
> David Huxley <
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.imdb.com*2Fname*2Fnm0000026*2F*3Fref_*3Dtt_ch&data=05*7C01*7Cfred.shapiro*40YALE.EDU*7C0320c746e1a64f5de82c08da9ef7d523*7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c*7C0*7C0*7C637997084516017325*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*7C*7C*7C&sdata=xSE*2F7WsWn77l1NYumN3q7veq29b8XNFuWXpXSj1EXOQ*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!OToaGQ!ooSW0g9Bvp0m2Ke6vc7YKFuz7a2C5bxs2JMZb8-_XQM78W5bE3_NSG_RGxRpJbDzrHrk0xWXI4W7O6pf-G-a_faa$
> > : Because I just went *GAY* all of a sudden!
>
> Mrs. Random <
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.imdb.com*2Fname*2Fnm0733480*2F*3Fref_*3Dtt_ch&data=05*7C01*7Cfred.shapiro*40YALE.EDU*7C0320c746e1a64f5de82c08da9ef7d523*7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c*7C0*7C0*7C637997084516017325*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*7C*7C*7C&sdata=*2BWqcU198Xa1L8RVMkMPc*2F5v8PoZXyhmIuTatmX5Adqs*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!OToaGQ!ooSW0g9Bvp0m2Ke6vc7YKFuz7a2C5bxs2JMZb8-_XQM78W5bE3_NSG_RGxRpJbDzrHrk0xWXI4W7O6pf-OAL-puN$
> > : Now see here young man, stop this nonsense. What are you doing?
>
> David Huxley <
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.imdb.com*2Fname*2Fnm0000026*2F*3Fref_*3Dtt_ch&data=05*7C01*7Cfred.shapiro*40YALE.EDU*7C0320c746e1a64f5de82c08da9ef7d523*7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c*7C0*7C0*7C637997084516017325*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*7C*7C*7C&sdata=xSE*2F7WsWn77l1NYumN3q7veq29b8XNFuWXpXSj1EXOQ*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!OToaGQ!ooSW0g9Bvp0m2Ke6vc7YKFuz7a2C5bxs2JMZb8-_XQM78W5bE3_NSG_RGxRpJbDzrHrk0xWXI4W7O6pf-G-a_faa$
> > : I'm sitting in the middle of 42nd Street waiting for a bus.
>
>
> 42nd Street was a well-known locale for homosexual assignations.  I
> understand how commentators who deny this as a usage of the modern sense of
> "gay" might regard it instead as an example of an older usage of "to go
> gay" meaning "uninhibited, wild, crazy, flamboyant."  But how do such
> commentators deny the implications of the "42nd Street waiting for a bus"
> line?
>
>
> Fred Shapiro
>
>
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