[Ads-l] "Fuck, Marry, Kill"?

Tue Jul 4 21:28:17 UTC 2023

Great work, Bill and Jeff.

I was looking for possible precursors with two elements and came
across "kiss or kill". Apparently, this is the name of a chase game
played by children. J. M. Barrie used the phrase "kiss or kill" in a
play. But the phrase was applied to a single person instead of two
people.

Year: 1922
Book Title: Dear Brutus: A Comedy in Three Acts
Author J. M. Barrie (James Matthew Barrie)
Quote Page 48
https://books.google.com/books?id=ai1aAAAAMAAJ&q=%22kiss+or+kill%22#v=snippet&

[Begin excerpt]
DEARTH. The bluntness of you, the adorable wildness of you, you
untamed thing! There were never any shades in you; kiss or kill was
your motto, Alice. I felt from the first moment, I saw you that you
would love me or knife me.
[End excerpt]

I found this entertaining match for "marry or murder" written by Sir
Arthur Conan Doyle about Sherlock Holmes.

Year: 1924
Book Title: Memories and Adventures
Author: Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Chapter 11: Sidelights on Sherlock Holmes
Quote Page 102
https://books.google.com/books?id=vg8MAQAAIAAJ&q=%22or+murder%22#v=snippet&

[Begin excerpt]
This was the second Sherlock Holmes play. I should have spoken about
the first, which was produced very much earlier, in fact at the time
of the African war. It was written and most wonderfully acted by
William Gillette, the famous American. Since he used my characters and
to some extent my plots, he naturally gave me a share in the
undertaking, which proved to be very successful. "May I marry Holmes?"
was one cable which I received from him when in the throes of
composition. "You may marry or murder or do what you like with him,"
was my heartless reply.
[End excerpt]

Garson

On Tue, Jul 4, 2023 at 4:00 PM Jeff Prucher
<000000b93183dc86-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
>
>  In 1991, the SF magazine Locus included a question or questions in its annual survey along the lines of "Who would you want to publish? marry? meet? murder?"
> According to isfdb.org, the survey was included in the Feb. 1991 issue (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?323678), but someone would need to find a hard copy in which the survey had not been ripped out and mailed in to verify how the question was phrased.
> The results were published in the Sept. 1991 issue, and the cover included a form of the question: https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/images/4/41/LOCUSSEP1991.jpg
>
>
>     On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 02:53:47 PM PDT, Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  The Nov. 7, 2001 episode of "The Howard Stern Show" (referenced in the
> Usenet post) is summarized here:
>
> ---
> http://www.marksfriggin.com/news01/11-5-01.htm
> Ed McMahon And The ''F***, Marry, Kill'' Game. 11/7/01. 8:30am
> Before Ed McMahon came in Howard said he had a new game to play called
> ''F***, Marry, Kill.'' In the game you get a choice of 3 women. You have to
> pick one that you'd screw, one that you'd marry and one that you'd kill. It
> sounded so interesting that Howard decided to let Ed McMahon play along
> with him.
> [...]
> Howard quickly got to the ''F***, Marry, Kill'' game and told Ed how they
> play it. Howard gave him the three names and then told Ed his choices. Here
> are the names and Howard's picks for the first group:
> Barbra Streissand - F*** because she's the only one of the three he might
> be able to get it up with
> Rosie O'Donnell - Marry her because she's a ''dyke'' and she'd bring hot
> women home for him to bang
> Oprah Winfrey - Kill because he doesn't want anything to do with her
> [etc.]
> ---
>
> Internet Archive has a number of audio and video clips from the show in
> 2001, but I don't see anything from that episode.
>
> https://archive.org/details/howard_stern_2001
> https://archive.org/search?query=subject%3A%22howard+stern%22&sort=date∧%5B%5D=year%3A%222001%22
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 5:09 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > A quick look at Usenet messages (which I cannot search effectively)
> > reveals some citations beginning in 2001. The second citation below
> > suggests that Howard Stern used an instance of the expression by 2001.
> >
> > Timestamp: Nov 7, 2001, 1:22:52 PM
> > Usenet Newsgroup: alt.pro-wrestling.wwf
> > Subject: bang, marry, kill
> > Poster: sinistersteve
> >
> > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.pro-wrestling.wwf/c/DkLneen5l7g/m/8te0X-2MngAJ
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > You must bang one, marry one, and kill one
> >
> > Lita
> > Molly Holly
> > Stacey Kiebler
> > Mae Young
> > Fabulous Moolah
> > Chyna
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> >
> > Timestamp: Nov 7, 2001, 4:43:08 PM
> > Usenet Newsgroup: alt.fan.howard-stern
> > Subject: Am I the only one who noticed...
> > Poster: MrPacNW
> >
> > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.fan.howard-stern/c/9aw3ERKqUW8/m/wq2JGYNE1tUJ
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > << ...that Stern accidently said "fuck" instead of "bang" during one
> > of the bang/marry/kill games, and it got through? >>
> >
> > I noticed it too. Yep, it got thru.
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 10:02 AM Jesse Sheidlower <jester at panix.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Subject line says it all: What's the origin of the game "Fuck, Marry,
> > Kill" (in any variant)? There's a Wikipedia entry for it, with examples
> > from the late 00s onwards; the earliest I have, after a casual search, is
> > from 2002. I don't recall it from my own adolescence. Has anyone researched
> > this?
> > >
> > > Jesse Sheidlower
> > >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
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