[Ads-l] "Fuck, Marry, Kill"?

[Laurence Horn]

Entertaining indeed, especially as one can imagine what might fill in for
the third disjunct in the permission Conan Doyle granted for Gillette to
"marry, murder, or do what you like with him". I mostly know Gillette in
connection with the massive castle he built on the Connecticut River, a
major tourist attraction in these parts:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gillette_Castle_State_Park
I'd forgotten before the wiki reminded me that Gillette's most celebrated
role was that of Sherlock.

LH

On Tue, Jul 4, 2023 at 5:29 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Great work, Bill and Jeff.
>
> I was looking for possible precursors with two elements and came
> across "kiss or kill". Apparently, this is the name of a chase game
> played by children. J. M. Barrie used the phrase "kiss or kill" in a
> play. But the phrase was applied to a single person instead of two
> people.
>
> Year: 1922
> Book Title: Dear Brutus: A Comedy in Three Acts
> Author J. M. Barrie (James Matthew Barrie)
> Quote Page 48
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=ai1aAAAAMAAJ&q=%22kiss+or+kill%22#v=snippet&
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> DEARTH. The bluntness of you, the adorable wildness of you, you
> untamed thing! There were never any shades in you; kiss or kill was
> your motto, Alice. I felt from the first moment, I saw you that you
> would love me or knife me.
> [End excerpt]
>
> I found this entertaining match for "marry or murder" written by Sir
> Arthur Conan Doyle about Sherlock Holmes.
>
> Year: 1924
> Book Title: Memories and Adventures
> Author: Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> Chapter 11: Sidelights on Sherlock Holmes
> Quote Page 102
> https://books.google.com/books?id=vg8MAQAAIAAJ&q=%22or+murder%22#v=snippet&
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> This was the second Sherlock Holmes play. I should have spoken about
> the first, which was produced very much earlier, in fact at the time
> of the African war. It was written and most wonderfully acted by
> William Gillette, the famous American. Since he used my characters and
> to some extent my plots, he naturally gave me a share in the
> undertaking, which proved to be very successful. "May I marry Holmes?"
> was one cable which I received from him when in the throes of
> composition. "You may marry or murder or do what you like with him,"
> was my heartless reply.
> [End excerpt]
>
> Garson
>
> On Tue, Jul 4, 2023 at 4:00 PM Jeff Prucher
> <000000b93183dc86-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
> >
> >  In 1991, the SF magazine Locus included a question or questions in its
> annual survey along the lines of "Who would you want to publish? marry?
> meet? murder?"
> > According to isfdb.org, the survey was included in the Feb. 1991 issue (
> https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?323678), but someone would need to
> find a hard copy in which the survey had not been ripped out and mailed in
> to verify how the question was phrased.
> > The results were published in the Sept. 1991 issue, and the cover
> included a form of the question:
> https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/images/4/41/LOCUSSEP1991.jpg
> >
> >
> >     On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 02:53:47 PM PDT, Ben Zimmer <
> bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >  The Nov. 7, 2001 episode of "The Howard Stern Show" (referenced in the
> > Usenet post) is summarized here:
> >
> > ---
> > http://www.marksfriggin.com/news01/11-5-01.htm
> > Ed McMahon And The ''F***, Marry, Kill'' Game. 11/7/01. 8:30am
> > Before Ed McMahon came in Howard said he had a new game to play called
> > ''F***, Marry, Kill.'' In the game you get a choice of 3 women. You have
> to
> > pick one that you'd screw, one that you'd marry and one that you'd kill.
> It
> > sounded so interesting that Howard decided to let Ed McMahon play along
> > with him.
> > [...]
> > Howard quickly got to the ''F***, Marry, Kill'' game and told Ed how they
> > play it. Howard gave him the three names and then told Ed his choices.
> Here
> > are the names and Howard's picks for the first group:
> > Barbra Streissand - F*** because she's the only one of the three he might
> > be able to get it up with
> > Rosie O'Donnell - Marry her because she's a ''dyke'' and she'd bring hot
> > women home for him to bang
> > Oprah Winfrey - Kill because he doesn't want anything to do with her
> > [etc.]
> > ---
> >
> > Internet Archive has a number of audio and video clips from the show in
> > 2001, but I don't see anything from that episode.
> >
> > https://archive.org/details/howard_stern_2001
> > https://archive.org/search?query=subject%3A%22howard+stern%22&sort=date
> ∧%5B%5D=year%3A%222001%22
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 5:09 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <
> adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > A quick look at Usenet messages (which I cannot search effectively)
> > > reveals some citations beginning in 2001. The second citation below
> > > suggests that Howard Stern used an instance of the expression by 2001.
> > >
> > > Timestamp: Nov 7, 2001, 1:22:52 PM
> > > Usenet Newsgroup: alt.pro-wrestling.wwf
> > > Subject: bang, marry, kill
> > > Poster: sinistersteve
> > >
> > >
> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.pro-wrestling.wwf/c/DkLneen5l7g/m/8te0X-2MngAJ
> > >
> > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > You must bang one, marry one, and kill one
> > >
> > > Lita
> > > Molly Holly
> > > Stacey Kiebler
> > > Mae Young
> > > Fabulous Moolah
> > > Chyna
> > > [End excerpt]
> > >
> > >
> > > Timestamp: Nov 7, 2001, 4:43:08 PM
> > > Usenet Newsgroup: alt.fan.howard-stern
> > > Subject: Am I the only one who noticed...
> > > Poster: MrPacNW
> > >
> > >
> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.fan.howard-stern/c/9aw3ERKqUW8/m/wq2JGYNE1tUJ
> > >
> > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > << ...that Stern accidently said "fuck" instead of "bang" during one
> > > of the bang/marry/kill games, and it got through? >>
> > >
> > > I noticed it too. Yep, it got thru.
> > > [End excerpt]
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 10:02 AM Jesse Sheidlower <jester at panix.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Subject line says it all: What's the origin of the game "Fuck, Marry,
> > > Kill" (in any variant)? There's a Wikipedia entry for it, with examples
> > > from the late 00s onwards; the earliest I have, after a casual search,
> is
> > > from 2002. I don't recall it from my own adolescence. Has anyone
> researched
> > > this?
> > > >
> > > > Jesse Sheidlower
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
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>

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