[Ads-l] Personal pronouns modified with relative clauses

[Charles C Doyle]

Or rather, "Our father WHICH art in heaven . . ." (in the KJV)!

--Charlie
________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
Sent: Monday, June 5, 2023 8:32 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Personal pronouns modified with relative clauses

[EXTERNAL SENDER - PROCEED CAUTIOUSLY]


Then there's "Our father, who art in heaven,...", with an implicit or
silent second person pronoun to which the "our father" is in apposition. Or
alternatively with a noun phrase used vocatively, governing second person
agreement. Either way, they don't make 'em like that anymore...

LH

On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 8:24 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Trump's use of "who" sounds perfectly normal to me, though formal and
> perhaps antiquated.
>
> I recall a grammar question from sixty years ago (God knows where) that
> asked "Which is correct?"
>
> 1. Confide in me, who is your friend.
>
> 2. Confide in me, who am your friend.
>
> The correct answer, of course, was 2.
>
> JL
>
> On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 7:31 PM Barretts Mail <mail.barretts at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Thank you for that example. I also thought of a couple of examples as I
> > was writing my email. For some reason “me, who did nothing wrong” sounds
> > ungrammatical to me, maybe because it’s restrictive. Not sure. BB
> >
> > > On Jun 5, 2023, at 15:30, Chris Waigl <chris at LASCRIBE.NET> wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't know. May he who is without sin throw the first stone.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > > (jokingly)
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 2:09 PM Barretts Mail <mail.barretts at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> My recollection is that one of the reasons some people doubt that
> > Japanese
> > >> “pronouns” are actually pronouns is that they can take relative
> clauses,
> > >> and that in languages like English, they cannot. To invent an example
> in
> > >> both languages:
> > >>
> > >> スーパにいた僕を見た。(suupa-ni ita boku-wo mita)
> > >> * (somebody) saw me who was in the grocery store.
> > >>
> > >> Today I saw an article in which former President Donald Trump violates
> > >> this rule. Here is that article and another quote. Is this idiolect or
> > >> dialect?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-asks-can-doj-charge-lawyers-meet-feds-rcna87770
> > >> Dareh Gregorian
> > >> 5 Jun 2023
> > >> ###
> > >> "How can DOJ possibly charge me, who did nothing wrong, when no other
> > >> president's were charged," Trump wrote on Truth Social in an all-caps
> > post.
> > >> ###
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/26/politics/donald-trump-press-conference-analysis/index.html
> > >> Chris Cillizza
> > >> 26 Sep 2018
> > >> ###
> > >> “I’ve been accused … by four or five women, who got paid a lot of
> money
> > to
> > >> make up stories about me who made a lot of money,” Trump said.
> > >> ###
> > >>
> > >> Benjamin Barrett (he/his/him)
> > >> Formerly of Seattle, WA
> > >>
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Chris Waigl . chris.waigl at gmail.com . chris at lascribe.net
> > > http://eggcorns.lascribe.net . http://chryss.eu
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

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