[Ads-l] Personal pronouns modified with relative clauses

[Baker, John]

I think that it is just that Trump was using the first person with a relative clause, and that always seems a bit off.  Think of JL’s example:  “me, who is your friend” and “me, who am your friend” both sound awkward to me, perhaps just because this construction is less common.  If you convert Trump’s statement to the third person, it sounds fine:  “How can DOJ possibly charge him, who did nothing wrong, when no other president's were charged?”  (Well, the use of the relative clause sounds fine; the sentence has other issues.)


John Baker


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Subject: Re: Personal pronouns modified with relative clauses

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Waxing religious again, we have--depending on the translation--


“He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”
"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
(John 8:7)

And on a more mundane note, there's always "He who hesitates is lost".

But these (well, not the one from the Lord's Prayer) are all *restrictive*
relative clauses, while Trump's ("me, who did nothing wrong") was a
non-restrictive (appositive) relative. Is that why it might seem odd?

LH

On Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 1:59 AM Geoffrey Nathan <geoffnathan at wayne.edu<mailto:geoffnathan at wayne.edu>>
wrote:

> My memory is that Japanese pronouns have a few
> additional characteristics that make them non-
> prototypical. They can be used in place of proper names:
> anata ‘you’ can be used to call someone, for example.
>
> Also, there’s the Rodin sculpture:
> https://tinyurl.com/5fympy4f<https://tinyurl.com/5fympy4f>
>
> Geoff
>
>
> Geoffrey S. Nathan
> WSU Information Privacy Officer (Retired)
> Emeritus Professor, Linguistics Program
> https://clasprofiles.wayne.edu/profile/an6993<https://clasprofiles.wayne.edu/profile/an6993>
> geoffnathan at wayne.edu<mailto:geoffnathan at wayne.edu>
>
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> Subject: Personal pronouns modified with relative clauses
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> My recollection is that one of the reasons some people doubt that =
> Japanese =E2=80=9Cpronouns=E2=80=9D are actually pronouns is that they =
> can take relative clauses, and that in languages like English, they =
> cannot. To invent an example in both languages:
>
>
> =E3=82=B9=E3=83=BC=E3=83=91=E3=81=AB=E3=81=84=E3=81=9F=E5=83=95=E3=82=92=E8=
> =A6=8B=E3=81=9F=E3=80=82(suupa-ni ita boku-wo mita)
> * (somebody) saw me who was in the grocery store.
>
> Today I saw an article in which former President Donald Trump violates =
> this rule. Here is that article and another quote. Is this idiolect or =
> dialect?
>
> =
> https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-asks-can-doj-charge-la=<https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-asks-can-doj-charge-la=>
> wyers-meet-feds-rcna87770
> <https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-asks-can-doj-charge-la=wyers-meet-feds-rcna87770<https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-asks-can-doj-charge-la=wyers-meet-feds-rcna87770>>
> Dareh Gregorian
> 5 Jun 2023
> ###
> "How can DOJ possibly charge me, who did nothing wrong, when no other =
> president's were charged," Trump wrote on Truth Social in an all-caps =
> post.
> ###
>
> =
> https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/26/politics/donald-trump-press-conference-anal=<https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/26/politics/donald-trump-press-conference-anal=>
> ysis/index.html
> <https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/26/politics/donald-trump-press-conference-anal=ysis/index.html<https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/26/politics/donald-trump-press-conference-anal=ysis/index.html>>
> Chris Cillizza
> 26 Sep 2018
> ###
> =E2=80=9CI=E2=80=99ve been accused =E2=80=A6 by four or five women, who =
> got paid a lot of money to make up stories about me who made a lot of =
> money,=E2=80=9D Trump said.=20
> ###
>
> Benjamin Barrett (he/his/him)
> Formerly of Seattle, WA
>
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