[Ads-l] Personal pronouns modified with relative clauses

[Barretts Mail]

I found this claim on Japanese pronouns vs English clauses at https://linguistics.stackexchange.com/questions/1424/what-languages-lack-personal-pronouns-and-why. Unfortunately it doesn’t provide any examples and I now need a nap.

FWIW, it also notes that Japanese pronouns can be modified by adjectives, which is not possible in my dialect of English:

* Smart she/her got a degree in computer science.
* Quick they tied in the marathon.

I suspect there are dialects or people who do use such forms.

Even so, I think this works, at least to a degree, in an appositive: 

Smart her, she got a degree in computer science.
? Quick them, they tied in the marathon.

Benjamin Barrett (he/him/his)
Formerly of Seattle, WA

> On Jun 5, 2023, at 22:59, Geoffrey Nathan <geoffnathan at WAYNE.EDU> wrote:
> 
> My memory is that Japanese pronouns have a few
> additional characteristics that make them non-
> prototypical. They can be used in place of proper names:
> anata ‘you’ can be used to call someone, for example.
> 
> Also, there’s the Rodin sculpture:
> https://tinyurl.com/5fympy4f
> 
> Geoff
> 
> 
> Geoffrey S. Nathan
> WSU Information Privacy Officer (Retired)
> Emeritus Professor, Linguistics Program
> https://clasprofiles.wayne.edu/profile/an6993
> geoffnathan at wayne.edu
> 
> From: Barretts Mail<mailto:mail.barretts at GMAIL.COM>
> Sent: Monday, June 5, 2023 12:10 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Personal pronouns modified with relative clauses
> 
> [EXTERNAL]
> 
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Barretts Mail <mail.barretts at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Personal pronouns modified with relative clauses
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> My recollection is that one of the reasons some people doubt that =
> Japanese =E2=80=9Cpronouns=E2=80=9D are actually pronouns is that they =
> can take relative clauses, and that in languages like English, they =
> cannot. To invent an example in both languages:
> 
> =E3=82=B9=E3=83=BC=E3=83=91=E3=81=AB=E3=81=84=E3=81=9F=E5=83=95=E3=82=92=E8=
> =A6=8B=E3=81=9F=E3=80=82(suupa-ni ita boku-wo mita)
> * (somebody) saw me who was in the grocery store.
> 
> Today I saw an article in which former President Donald Trump violates =
> this rule. Here is that article and another quote. Is this idiolect or =
> dialect?
> 
> =
> https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-asks-can-doj-charge-la=
> wyers-meet-feds-rcna87770
> Dareh Gregorian
> 5 Jun 2023
> ###
> "How can DOJ possibly charge me, who did nothing wrong, when no other =
> president's were charged," Trump wrote on Truth Social in an all-caps =
> post.
> ###
> 
> =
> https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/26/politics/donald-trump-press-conference-anal=
> ysis/index.html
> Chris Cillizza
> 26 Sep 2018
> ###
> =E2=80=9CI=E2=80=99ve been accused =E2=80=A6 by four or five women, who =
> got paid a lot of money to make up stories about me who made a lot of =
> money,=E2=80=9D Trump said.=20
> ###
> 
> Benjamin Barrett (he/his/him)
> Formerly of Seattle, WA
> 
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> 
> 
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