[Ads-l] antedating "When the elephants fight..."

[ADSGarson O'Toole]

Interesting topic, JL. Excellent citation, James.
The citation below presents two closely related statements with grass
suffering or being crushed. The fighting animals are not elephants.

Year: 1891
Book Title: Behar Proverbs: Classified and Arranged
Author: John Christian
Publisher: Kegan Paul, Trench, Trübner & Company, London
Quote Page 94
https://books.google.com/books?id=u67hAAAAMAAJ&q=%22suffers+in%22#v=snippet&

[Begin excerpt]
The grass suffers in the fight of the tiger and buffalo.
. . .
In the fight between the tiger and the buffalo the long grass and
weeds perish (by being crushed). i.e., When two great men quarrel and
fight, the "small fry" about them suffer.
[End excerpt]

The instance below referred to an endangered "pup dog".

Date: May 21, 1901
Newspaper: The Parsons Daily Sun
Newspaper Location: Parsons, Kansas
Article: (Untitled short item)
Quote Page 2, Column 1
Database: Newspapers.com

[Begin excerpt]
The efforts of the millionaire syndicates to buy the property out from
under each other will not hurt you any if you don't dip in where you
have no business. When elephants fight, the pup dog better keep out of
the compound or he will get stepped on and flattened out about one
millimeter thick.
[End excerpt]

Below is a close match that appeared slightly earlier than the 1919
match located by JL.

Date: 1918
Title: Correspondence Relating To the Wishes of the Natives of the
German Colonies as to Their Future Government
Report number 11
Report Title: German East Africa
From: H. A. Byatt (Administrator)
To: Secretary of State
Date sent: March 22, 1918
Date received: May 16, 1918
Quote Page 25
Publisher: His Majesty's Stationery Office, London

https://books.google.com/books?id=2AkyAQAAMAAJ&q=%22When+elephants%22#v=snippet&

[Begin excerpt]
He has suffered from the heavy exactions first of the Germans and then
of ourselves, but as a rule is inclined to comfort himself with the
philosophic reflection of the native proverb: "When elephants fight it
is the grass that suffers."
[End excerpt]

Garson

On Fri, Oct 13, 2023 at 1:23 AM James Eric Lawson <jel at nventure.com> wrote:
>
> Thirty-three years earlier, and said to have been collected by Fallon
> between 1870 and 1880, this is purportedly a Hindustani proverb:
>
> 1886  S. W. Fallon *A dictionary of Hindustani proverbs, including many
> Marwari, Panjabi, Maggah, Bhojpuri and Tirhuti proverbs, sayings,
> emblems, aphorisms, maxims and similes* (HathiTrust) 115   When
> buffaloes fight the plantation is ruined.
>
> https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.c2846929&seq=131&q1=when+buffaloes+fight
>
> On 10/12/23 18:04, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > Oxford dictionary of proverbs has this from 1936, suggesting an origin in
> > the Belgian Congo.
> >
> > 1919 Colorado Springs Gazette (Feb. 2) 2: A native [of German East Africa]
> > recalled a tribal proverb: "When elephants fight, it is the grass that
> > suffers."
> >
> > 1920 Vancouver Daily World (Sept. 9) 8: Four years of war, during which the
> > natives ["of East Africa"] were badly used. "In their own language," said
> > the major, "'when the elephants fight, the grass is trampled.'"
> >
> > 1953 William Manchester, in The Sun (Baltimore, Md.) (Nov. 24)  1: The
> > Burmese have a saying: When two buffaloes fight, the victim is the grass
> > beneath them.
> >
> > 1959 St. Louis Post-Dispatch (Oct. 11)  3H: some of the Laotian sayings
> > carry a good bit of folk wisdom....[E.g.,] "When the buffaloes fight, it is
> > the grass that suffers."
> >
> > 1962 Rockford [Ill.] Register-Republic (March 28) 2B:   "When elephants
> > fight, it's wise for ants to step aside," Cambodians told him.
> >
> > 1968 Akron Beacon Journal (March 3) A2: The Vietnamese have their own words
> > for it: "When the buffaloes fight, the mosquitos die."
> >
> > IIRC, the version I heard in the '80s was "When the buffaloes fight, the
> > ants are trampled."
>
> --
> James Eric Lawson
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org