[Ads-l] "Old soldiers never die."

[Shapiro, Fred]

Jon Lighter is not only the master of American slang lexicography, he also is a formidable student of military language and a formidable student of historical songs.

The New Yale Book of Quotations lists "old soldiers never die, they simply fade away" under the author J. Foley and dated 1916.  NYBQ notes "This song was copyrighted by Foley, but he may well not have been the author."  Foley's birth date is given as the clearly erroneous "1906."

Lighter's discovery of a 1909 citation for "Old soldiers never die" is a terrific one.  It led me to search British Newspaper Archive.  I have cancelled my subscription to BNA as part of a reaction to my realizing that I was spending about $1000 a year on various paywalled newspaper databases, so the citations below come from slightly garbled non-paywalled BNA snippets:

1908 _Buchan Observer and East Aberdeenshire Advertiser_ 25 Feb. 5  Loud and continued applause, the company, on the call of Colonel Rennie, joining in lustily singing the chorus Old soldiers never die.

1915 _Runcorn Examiner_ 16 Jan. 5  The reserves kept up a continual round of songs, including Tipperary and Old soldiers never die, they simply fade away.

BNA has a number of other citations from the 1908-1915 period.  It appears that there were at least three phases in the development of the song:

Old soldiers never die,
Old soldiers never die, young soldiers wish they would.
Old soldiers never die, they simply fade away.

The first and third of these are serious, the second one is satirical.

Fred Shapiro


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From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2023 7:49 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: "Old soldiers never die."

Oxford Dictionary of Proverbs: 1920.

[1890 Grand Army Journal (Topeka, Kans.) (May 10) 3: My God! Will those old
soldiers never die?]

1909 Daily Mail (Hull, Eng.) (Aug. 4, 1909) 3: One company [of the Hull
Rifles], this year, has for its favourite song, ‘Old soldiers never die!’

1911 Manchester Evening News (Jan. 30)  7: Even his fine recitations were
not more enjoyed than the frequent singing of the old Manchester regimental
chorus ‘Old soldiers never die; young soldiers wish they would,’ to the
tune of ‘Kind words can never die.’

1915 Armidale [N.S.W.] Express (Apr. 20, 1915) 7:  We [Australian soldiers
in Egypt] sing, ‘Old soldiers never die, never die, never die; old soldiers
never die, they fade away.’

1918 Manchester Guardian(July 8, 1918)  8:

             Old sailors never die, never die, never die;
             Old sailors never die, they simply fade away.


1939  Leland F. Lovette _Naval Customs Traditions and Usage_  (Annapolis:
U.S. Naval Institute Press) 270: Old sailors never die, they just sail away.


 1980 Daily Colonist (Victoria, B.C.) (March 2) (Vancouver Section) 9: Old
sailors never die, they just get a little dinghy.

JL






"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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