[Ads-l] "Old soldiers never die."

[Jonathan Lighter]

My blushes, Fred. It was most elementary.

Congrats on 1908.  Douglas MacArthur promoted the phrase in his farewell
address to Congress in 1951. Referring to his days at West Point
(1899-1903), he concluded by saying:

"I still remember the refrain of one of the most popular barracks ballads
of that day which proclaimed most proudly that:
                                       '
                    Old soldiers never die - they just fade away."

The simple tune is based on the opening measures of the anonymous hymn
"Kind Words Can Never Die,"' music by Abby Hutchinson Patton, 1855.

Since at least 1952 there have been several spinoffs in the pattern of "Old
soldiers/  lawyers /politicians / cowboys /fishermen never die, they just
smell that way."

JL

On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 6:44 AM Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu> wrote:

> Jon Lighter is not only the master of American slang lexicography, he also
> is a formidable student of military language and a formidable student of
> historical songs.
>
> The New Yale Book of Quotations lists "old soldiers never die, they simply
> fade away" under the author J. Foley and dated 1916.  NYBQ notes "This song
> was copyrighted by Foley, but he may well not have been the author."
> Foley's birth date is given as the clearly erroneous "1906."
>
> Lighter's discovery of a 1909 citation for "Old soldiers never die" is a
> terrific one.  It led me to search British Newspaper Archive.  I have
> cancelled my subscription to BNA as part of a reaction to my realizing that
> I was spending about $1000 a year on various paywalled newspaper databases,
> so the citations below come from slightly garbled non-paywalled BNA
> snippets:
>
> 1908 _Buchan Observer and East Aberdeenshire Advertiser_ 25 Feb. 5  Loud
> and continued applause, the company, on the call of Colonel Rennie, joining
> in lustily singing the chorus Old soldiers never die.
>
> 1915 _Runcorn Examiner_ 16 Jan. 5  The reserves kept up a continual round
> of songs, including Tipperary and Old soldiers never die, they simply fade
> away.
>
> BNA has a number of other citations from the 1908-1915 period.  It appears
> that there were at least three phases in the development of the song:
>
> Old soldiers never die,
> Old soldiers never die, young soldiers wish they would.
> Old soldiers never die, they simply fade away.
>
> The first and third of these are serious, the second one is satirical.
>
> Fred Shapiro
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2023 7:49 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: "Old soldiers never die."
>
> Oxford Dictionary of Proverbs: 1920.
>
> [1890 Grand Army Journal (Topeka, Kans.) (May 10) 3: My God! Will those old
> soldiers never die?]
>
> 1909 Daily Mail (Hull, Eng.) (Aug. 4, 1909) 3: One company [of the Hull
> Rifles], this year, has for its favourite song, ‘Old soldiers never die!’
>
> 1911 Manchester Evening News (Jan. 30)  7: Even his fine recitations were
> not more enjoyed than the frequent singing of the old Manchester regimental
> chorus ‘Old soldiers never die; young soldiers wish they would,’ to the
> tune of ‘Kind words can never die.’
>
> 1915 Armidale [N.S.W.] Express (Apr. 20, 1915) 7:  We [Australian soldiers
> in Egypt] sing, ‘Old soldiers never die, never die, never die; old soldiers
> never die, they fade away.’
>
> 1918 Manchester Guardian(July 8, 1918)  8:
>
>              Old sailors never die, never die, never die;
>              Old sailors never die, they simply fade away.
>
>
> 1939  Leland F. Lovette _Naval Customs Traditions and Usage_  (Annapolis:
> U.S. Naval Institute Press) 270: Old sailors never die, they just sail
> away.
>
>
>  1980 Daily Colonist (Victoria, B.C.) (March 2) (Vancouver Section) 9: Old
> sailors never die, they just get a little dinghy.
>
> JL
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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