[Ads-l] (One for QI, perhaps) "Is your client aware of [legal maxim]" "In [location] they speak of little else"

Wed Apr 24 19:12:26 UTC 2024

Not quite as early, but possibly of interest:

“You may have heard, speaking of making a record on these things and what the defendant understands during the sentencing process, of the occasion when a defendant stood before the judge for a sentence in an extremely complicated conspiracy case, and the judge said to the lawyer, “Does your client understand the principle of _nihil nequam est praesumendum_?” The lawyer did a double-take and said, “What? Oh, yes, Your Honor. Yes. In fact, up in the hills where my client comes from they speak  of little else.” I don't know that that would make a very good record on appeal.”

Crime Commission of Philadelphia, First Philadelphia Judicial Sentencing Institute, 40 F.R.D. 399, 414 (Oct. 29 – 30, 1965).  “F.R.D.” is Federal Rules Decisions, which primarily provides opinions from federal district courts but occasionally includes other materials; my source is Westlaw.  “Nihil nequam est praesumendum” is an extremely obscure phrase (it would be overstating to call it a legal maxim, even a little-known one) and means “nothing wicked is to be presumed.”

John Baker

From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> On Behalf Of ADSGarson O'Toole
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2024 12:20 PM
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Subject: Re: (One for QI, perhaps) "Is your client aware of [legal maxim]" "In [location] they speak of little else"

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Fred Shapiro is the top expert for legal quotations. He may have seen
this family of quotations before.

Here is the earliest match I saw. Apparently, this story is reprinted
from the Courier newspaper of New Zealand.

Date: July 19, 1949
Periodical: The New Zealand Law Journal
Volume 25, Number 13
Column Title: In Your Armchair--And Mine
Column Author: Scriblex
Quote Page 223, Column 2
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Database: Library of Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand;
library.victoria.ac.nz

https://library.victoria.ac.nz/databases/nzlawjournal/pubs/1949/1949-13-209.pdf<https://library.victoria.ac.nz/databases/nzlawjournal/pubs/1949/1949-13-209.pdf>

[Begin excerpt - please double check for errors]
Volenti non fit injuria.--Scriblex is indebted to Courier for this
story of Sergeant A. M. Sullivan, K.C., last of the old
Sergeants-at-Law of the Irish Bar, who at the age of seventy-eight has
now decided to retire from active legal practice.

The story, which will appeal at least to the common-law advocate,
concerns his appearance for an Irish labourer injured at work and
refused compensation. Unsuccessful in every Court, the plaintiff
reached the House of Lords , where considerable argument centred round
the Volenti non fit injuria doctrine. The appellant, a native of
remote Ballygullion, had insisted upon being present, and had sat
throughout "as expressionless as an Irish potato."

During the third day, one of the Law Lords cut Sullivan short with:
"But surely your client must be taken to have heard of the doctrine
volenti non fit injuria?" "My Lord," replied Sullivan, gravely, "in
Ballygullion they talk of little else."
[End excerpt]

Here is a snippet match from Google Books circa 1952.

Year 1952 according to GB
Periodical: World Review of Reviews
Book review of: The Last Sergeant: The Memoirs of Sergeant A. M. Sullivan Q.C.
Reviewer: F. H. Lawton
GB Page 64
Publisher: Chatto & Windus, London
Database: Google Books snippet match. Metadata may be inaccurate.
Citation must be verified with hardcopy or scans. Search within volume
for 1952 indicates that the year is plausible.

https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=RvvPAAAAMAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=%22little+else%22<https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=RvvPAAAAMAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=%22little+else%22>

[Begin excerpt]
According to one such story, which fits the Sergeant well, a
desiccated Law Lord asked him whether his client hadn't considered the
maxim volenti non fit injuria before starting out on the course of
conduct which was under discussion. 'He did indeed, my Lord,' replied
the Sergeant. 'In the mountain village from which he comes they talk
of little else.'
[End excerpt]

The anecdote above might be from the book under review, or it might be
a separate tale from the reviewer.

Below is another match with an Irish setting.

Date: April 14, 1955
Title: Osgoode Hall Lore: Being an address given to The Lawyers Club
in the Convocation Hall, Osgoode Hall, Toronto
Author: George A. Johnston
Quote Page 3
Database: Internet Archive Full View

[Begin excerpt]
For some reason I am reminded of the story of a case from a little
country town in Ireland, which had finally reached the highest court
of appeal. One of the law lords at one stage interrupted counsel to
suggest: "But surely, Mr. Sullivan, your client must be familiar with
the maxim, Volenti non fit injuria". "My Lord", counsel replied, "in
Ballygullion they talk of little else".
[End excerpt]

Garson

On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 7:46 AM mr_peter_morris at outlook.com<mailto:mr_peter_morris at outlook.com>
<mr_peter_morris at outlook.com<mailto:mr_peter_morris at outlook.com>> wrote:
>
> This anecdote came up today in an internet forum I frequent.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Judge: “Mr Marshall Hall, is your client familiar with the doctrine
> res ipsa loquitur?
>
> Marshall: “My Lord, in the remote hills of County Donegal from
> where my client hails they speak of little else.”
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Anyone know the origin of this?
>
> Researching, I've seen it attributed to Marshall Hall, F.E. Smith and
> Gilbert Grey, with a variety of legal maxims, and locations including
> Barnsley, Scotland, Ireland and East Texas.
>
> Earliest cite I can find is 1968
> https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Denver_Law_Journal/-2ZNAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=judge+%22they+speak+of+little+else%22&dq=judge+%22they+speak+of+little+else%22&printsec=frontcover<https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Denver_Law_Journal/-2ZNAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=judge+%22they+speak+of+little+else%22&dq=judge+%22they+speak+of+little+else%22&printsec=frontcover>
>
> And here's one from 1975.
> https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Organized_Bar/QncHGP0O-7gC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22speak+of+little+else%22&pg=PA50&printsec=frontcover<https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Organized_Bar/QncHGP0O-7gC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22speak+of+little+else%22&pg=PA50&printsec=frontcover>
>
> And 1982
> https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Mountain/Jm8jAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22legal+maxim%22+%22speak+of+little+else%22&dq=%22legal+maxim%22+%22speak+of+little+else%22&printsec=frontcover<https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Mountain/Jm8jAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22legal+maxim%22+%22speak+of+little+else%22&dq=%22legal+maxim%22+%22speak+of+little+else%22&printsec=frontcover>
>
> Some discussion of it on Law Stack Exchange.
> https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/21562/what-is-the-origin-of-this-legal-quote-in-barnsley-mlud-they-speak-of-l<https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/21562/what-is-the-origin-of-this-legal-quote-in-barnsley-mlud-they-speak-of-l>
>
>
> Can ADS and QI locate earlier cites ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org<http://www.americandialect.org>

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