[Ads-l] (One for QI, perhaps) "Is your client aware of [legal maxim]" "In [location] they speak of little else"

Wed Apr 24 19:47:34 UTC 2024

Thanks Peter and John. Here is a match circa 1956 that uses a
different legal phrase: Res ipsa loquitur.

Year: 1956 (GB snippet may be inaccurate)
Title: Proceedings of a Mining & Quarrying Conference, School of Mines
and Metallurgy, Otago University
Volume 3
Quote Page GB 20
Database: Google Books snippet; requires verification with scans or
hardcopy. Search for 1956 shows a match for a 1956 date; search for
1955 shows table ending with 1955; hence, 1956 is plausible

https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=el3xWSjD93UC&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=%22be+sure%22

[Begin excerpt - please double check spelling]
I am reminded of the saying of Serjeant Sullivan, an Irish lawyer, who
when this point arose and the judge said, "I suppose, Serjeant
Sullivan, that in the country you come from, they are acquainted with
the doctrine of "Res ipsa loquitur"?" Serjent Sullivan replied, "To be
sure, Your Lordship, in the little village in Ireland where I was
brought up they talk of nothing else!"
[End excerpt]

"Serjeant" and "Serjent" occur in the visible snippet.

Garson

On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 3:12 PM Baker, John
<000014a9c79c3f97-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
>
> Not quite as early, but possibly of interest:
>
> “You may have heard, speaking of making a record on these things and what the defendant understands during the sentencing process, of the occasion when a defendant stood before the judge for a sentence in an extremely complicated conspiracy case, and the judge said to the lawyer, “Does your client understand the principle of _nihil nequam est praesumendum_?” The lawyer did a double-take and said, “What? Oh, yes, Your Honor. Yes. In fact, up in the hills where my client comes from they speak  of little else.” I don't know that that would make a very good record on appeal.”
>
> Crime Commission of Philadelphia, First Philadelphia Judicial Sentencing Institute, 40 F.R.D. 399, 414 (Oct. 29 – 30, 1965).  “F.R.D.” is Federal Rules Decisions, which primarily provides opinions from federal district courts but occasionally includes other materials; my source is Westlaw.  “Nihil nequam est praesumendum” is an extremely obscure phrase (it would be overstating to call it a legal maxim, even a little-known one) and means “nothing wicked is to be presumed.”
>
>
> John Baker
>
>
>
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> On Behalf Of ADSGarson O'Toole
> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2024 12:20 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: (One for QI, perhaps) "Is your client aware of [legal maxim]" "In [location] they speak of little else"
>
> External Email - Think Before You Click
>
>
> Fred Shapiro is the top expert for legal quotations. He may have seen
> this family of quotations before.
>
> Here is the earliest match I saw. Apparently, this story is reprinted
> from the Courier newspaper of New Zealand.
>
> Date: July 19, 1949
> Periodical: The New Zealand Law Journal
> Volume 25, Number 13
> Column Title: In Your Armchair--And Mine
> Column Author: Scriblex
> Quote Page 223, Column 2
> Location: Wellington, New Zealand
> Database: Library of Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand;
> library.victoria.ac.nz
>
> https://library.victoria.ac.nz/databases/nzlawjournal/pubs/1949/1949-13-209.pdf<https://library.victoria.ac.nz/databases/nzlawjournal/pubs/1949/1949-13-209.pdf>
>
> [Begin excerpt - please double check for errors]
> Volenti non fit injuria.--Scriblex is indebted to Courier for this
> story of Sergeant A. M. Sullivan, K.C., last of the old
> Sergeants-at-Law of the Irish Bar, who at the age of seventy-eight has
> now decided to retire from active legal practice.
>
> The story, which will appeal at least to the common-law advocate,
> concerns his appearance for an Irish labourer injured at work and
> refused compensation. Unsuccessful in every Court, the plaintiff
> reached the House of Lords , where considerable argument centred round
> the Volenti non fit injuria doctrine. The appellant, a native of
> remote Ballygullion, had insisted upon being present, and had sat
> throughout "as expressionless as an Irish potato."
>
> During the third day, one of the Law Lords cut Sullivan short with:
> "But surely your client must be taken to have heard of the doctrine
> volenti non fit injuria?" "My Lord," replied Sullivan, gravely, "in
> Ballygullion they talk of little else."
> [End excerpt]
>
> Here is a snippet match from Google Books circa 1952.
>
> Year 1952 according to GB
> Periodical: World Review of Reviews
> Book review of: The Last Sergeant: The Memoirs of Sergeant A. M. Sullivan Q.C.
> Reviewer: F. H. Lawton
> GB Page 64
> Publisher: Chatto & Windus, London
> Database: Google Books snippet match. Metadata may be inaccurate.
> Citation must be verified with hardcopy or scans. Search within volume
> for 1952 indicates that the year is plausible.
>
> https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=RvvPAAAAMAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=%22little+else%22<https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=RvvPAAAAMAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=%22little+else%22>
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> According to one such story, which fits the Sergeant well, a
> desiccated Law Lord asked him whether his client hadn't considered the
> maxim volenti non fit injuria before starting out on the course of
> conduct which was under discussion. 'He did indeed, my Lord,' replied
> the Sergeant. 'In the mountain village from which he comes they talk
> of little else.'
> [End excerpt]
>
> The anecdote above might be from the book under review, or it might be
> a separate tale from the reviewer.
>
> Below is another match with an Irish setting.
>
> Date: April 14, 1955
> Title: Osgoode Hall Lore: Being an address given to The Lawyers Club
> in the Convocation Hall, Osgoode Hall, Toronto
> Author: George A. Johnston
> Quote Page 3
> Database: Internet Archive Full View
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> For some reason I am reminded of the story of a case from a little
> country town in Ireland, which had finally reached the highest court
> of appeal. One of the law lords at one stage interrupted counsel to
> suggest: "But surely, Mr. Sullivan, your client must be familiar with
> the maxim, Volenti non fit injuria". "My Lord", counsel replied, "in
> Ballygullion they talk of little else".
> [End excerpt]
>
> Garson
>
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 7:46 AM mr_peter_morris at outlook.com<mailto:mr_peter_morris at outlook.com>
> <mr_peter_morris at outlook.com<mailto:mr_peter_morris at outlook.com>> wrote:
> >
> > This anecdote came up today in an internet forum I frequent.
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Judge: “Mr Marshall Hall, is your client familiar with the doctrine
> > res ipsa loquitur?
> >
> > Marshall: “My Lord, in the remote hills of County Donegal from
> > where my client hails they speak of little else.”
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Anyone know the origin of this?
> >
> > Researching, I've seen it attributed to Marshall Hall, F.E. Smith and
> > Gilbert Grey, with a variety of legal maxims, and locations including
> > Barnsley, Scotland, Ireland and East Texas.
> >
> > Earliest cite I can find is 1968
> > https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Denver_Law_Journal/-2ZNAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=judge+%22they+speak+of+little+else%22&dq=judge+%22they+speak+of+little+else%22&printsec=frontcover<https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Denver_Law_Journal/-2ZNAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=judge+%22they+speak+of+little+else%22&dq=judge+%22they+speak+of+little+else%22&printsec=frontcover>
> >
> > And here's one from 1975.
> > https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Organized_Bar/QncHGP0O-7gC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22speak+of+little+else%22&pg=PA50&printsec=frontcover<https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Organized_Bar/QncHGP0O-7gC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22speak+of+little+else%22&pg=PA50&printsec=frontcover>
> >
> > And 1982
> > https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Mountain/Jm8jAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22legal+maxim%22+%22speak+of+little+else%22&dq=%22legal+maxim%22+%22speak+of+little+else%22&printsec=frontcover<https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Mountain/Jm8jAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22legal+maxim%22+%22speak+of+little+else%22&dq=%22legal+maxim%22+%22speak+of+little+else%22&printsec=frontcover>
> >
> > Some discussion of it on Law Stack Exchange.
> > https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/21562/what-is-the-origin-of-this-legal-quote-in-barnsley-mlud-they-speak-of-l<https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/21562/what-is-the-origin-of-this-legal-quote-in-barnsley-mlud-they-speak-of-l>
> >
> >
> > Can ADS and QI locate earlier cites ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org<http://www.americandialect.org>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org<http://www.americandialect.org>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org