[Ads-l] (One for QI, perhaps) "Is your client aware of [legal maxim]" "In [location] they speak of little else"

Thu Apr 25 17:25:35 UTC 2024

Now, I have been able to access scans of "The Last Serjeant: The
Memoirs of Serjeant A. M. Sullivan Q.C."
The person using the fancy Latin phrases was Sir John Chute Neligan,
Recorder of Cork

[Begin excerpt - please double check for errors]
Like all gentlemen of the old school, Sir John revelled in Latin
quotations, which, however, were almost as unintelligible to his
audience as the new Sinn Fein language is to the Irish people. In East
Cork the legal profession was passing into the hands of those to whom
classics were unknown.
[End excerpt]

The zinger was delivered by Henry Harte Barry as indicated in my
previous message.

Garson

On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 1:01 PM ADSGarson O'Toole
<adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Congratulations to  Gareth Rees. Thanks for relaying his valuable
> findings, Peter.
>
> I searched in the memoir of A. M. Sullivan and found another version
> of the tale. Interestingly, Sullivan does not claim credit for the
> line. He assigns credit to Henry Harte Barry. The Latin phrase is
> different, and the location in Ireland is different.
>
> I do not have full access to memoir, so the text below is extracted
> via snippets.
>
> Year: 1952 (GB snippet; year may be inaccurate)
> Title: The Last Serjeant: The Memoirs of Serjeant A. M. Sullivan
> Quote Page 48 (GB snippet)
> Publisher: Macdonald, London
> Database: Google Books snippet; must be verified with scans or hardcopy
>
> [Begin excerpt - please double check for errors]
> "Mr. Barry," he said on another occasion, "has your client never heard
> Sic utere tuo alienum non laedas?"
>
> "Not a day passes, your Honour, on which he does not hear it. It is
> the sole topic of conversation where he lives at the top of Mushera
> mountain, "replied old Henry Harte Barry, the doyen of Kanturk.
> [End excerpt]
>
> The tale in A. M. Sullivan's memoir was repeated in a review of the
> book published in the "Evening Standard" of London.
>
> Date: March 21, 1952
> Newspaper: Evening Standard
> Newspaper Location: London, England
> Article: The Last of the Serjeants
> Author: Montgomery Hyde
> Quote Page 9, Column 1
> Database: Newspapers.com
>
> https://www.newspapers.com/image/720844665/?terms=sole&match=1
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> Alexander Martin Sullivan was the son of A.M. Sullivan, an Irish
> Nationalist MP. He was brought up in New York, where as a youth he
> worked on newspapers and married a Brooklyn girl.
>
> He returned to Ireland in 1892 to be called to the Irish Bar and to
> practise there with considerable success for more than a quarter of a
> century.
>
> One of his stories concerns a Recorder of Cork who went in for Latin quotations.
>
> "Mr. Barry" said the Recorder on one occasion, "has your client never
> heard the maxim sic utere tuo alienum non laedas?"
>
> "Not a day passes your honour, on which he does not hear it," replied
> the imperturbable counsel. "It is the sole topic of conversation where
> he lives at the top of Mushera Mountain"
> [End excerpt]
>
> Garson
>
> On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 11:25 AM mr_peter_morris at outlook.com
> <mr_peter_morris at outlook.com> wrote:
> >
> > A chap named Gareth Rees on another forum has  found several  cites,
> > including  one from April 1949. I think that's the earliest so far.
> >
> > He also  provided evidence that the story probably didn't come from
> > Doyle's Ballygullion stories.
> >
> > https://literature.stackexchange.com/questions/26803/does-this-ballygullion-anecdote-published-as-true-in-a-law-journal-originall/26805#26805
> >
> >
> > ------ Original Message ------
> > From "mr_peter_morris at outlook.com" <mr_peter_morris at OUTLOOK.COM>
> > To ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > Date 24/04/2024 12:46:04
> > Subject (One for QI, perhaps) "Is your client aware of [legal maxim]"
> > "In [location] they speak of little else"
> >
> > >This anecdote came up today in an internet forum I frequent.
> > >
> > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >Judge: “Mr Marshall Hall, is your client familiar with the doctrine
> > >res ipsa loquitur?
> > >
> > >Marshall: “My Lord, in the remote hills of County Donegal from
> > >where my client hails they speak of little else.”
> > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >Anyone know the origin of this?
> > >
> > >Researching, I've seen it attributed to Marshall Hall, F.E. Smith and
> > >Gilbert Grey,  with a variety of legal maxims, and locations including
> > >Barnsley, Scotland, Ireland and East Texas.
> > >
> > >Earliest cite I can find is 1968
> > >https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Denver_Law_Journal/-2ZNAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=judge+%22they+speak+of+little+else%22&dq=judge+%22they+speak+of+little+else%22&printsec=frontcover
> > >
> > >And here's one from 1975.
> > >https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Organized_Bar/QncHGP0O-7gC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22speak+of+little+else%22&pg=PA50&printsec=frontcover
> > >
> > >And 1982
> > >https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Mountain/Jm8jAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22legal+maxim%22+%22speak+of+little+else%22&dq=%22legal+maxim%22+%22speak+of+little+else%22&printsec=frontcover
> > >
> > >Some discussion of it on Law Stack Exchange.
> > >https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/21562/what-is-the-origin-of-this-legal-quote-in-barnsley-mlud-they-speak-of-l
> > >
> > >
> > >Can ADS and QI locate earlier cites ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------------------------------------
> > >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org