[Ads-l] Etymology of Flack (Corrected Posting)
Shapiro, Fred
fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU
Tue Jan 16 13:13:22 UTC 2024
Yes, I agree with Dave that the Gene Flack theory "is by no means dispositive." I was only trying to respond to John Baker's question about whether the Gene Flack theory was "viable." I think it is still viable.
Anatoly Liberman has written that his quest is to avoid ever saying "Etymology unknown." I believe that "Etymology unknown" is the hallmark of the true etymologist. The etymology of "flack" is unknown.
Fred Shapiro
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From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of dave at wilton.net <dave at WILTON.NET>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2024 7:43 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Etymology of Flack (Corrected Posting)
That quote from Winchell only tells us what Winchell thought the Variety editors knew; it doesn't tell us what Variety editors actually knew. Also, according the antedatings Fred has found, Winchell was writing at least six years after Variety started using "flack." It may be that editors at Variety who Winchell may have consulted in 1939 were unaware of how the term had been coined by others years earlier.
The 1939 Winchell quote lends a degree of credibility to the Gene Flack hypothesis, but it is by no means dispositive. Winchell may have been an expert in the field of entertainment, but lots of experts are taken in by false etymologies related to their field.
-----Original Message-----
From: "Baker, John" <000014a9c79c3f97-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2024 9:40pm
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Etymology of Flack (Corrected Posting)
Thanks, Fred. Since the implication is that the people actually using "flack" did not know about Gene Flack, that would seem to count against its likelihood. Merriam-Webster mentions a rumor that holds that it derives from a similar-sounding Yiddish word for someone who talks about someone else's affairs. That sounds more plausible to me.
John Baker
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> On Behalf Of Shapiro, Fred
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2024 4:19 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Etymology of Flack (Corrected Posting)
I see a column in the Cincinnati Enquirer, 22 Jan. 1939, by some guy named Walter Winchell, who I think was somewhat knowledgeable about the entertainment world and the media. Winchell wrote: "Variety, which is trying to coin 'Flack' as a synonym for press agent (without much luck) might like to know it was born in the Chicago offices of Gene Flack, a film publicist."
Fred Shapiro
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From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>> on behalf of Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU<mailto:fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2024 3:59 PM
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Subject: Etymology of Flack (Corrected Posting)
The case for Gene Flack is based on a 1939 article in the magazine Better English, which stated that the term "flack" "is said to" have originated in Variety derived from Gene Flack's name (the Better English article also mentions a possible Yiddish derivation). My discoveries of 1933 uses in Variety make the 1939 article more distant from the origination and thus less authoritative.
I do not think that the 1933 discoveries make the Gene Flack theory unviable. If the 1939 article was based on information from Variety itself, that would carry weight.
Fred Shapiro
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From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>> on behalf of Baker, John <000014a9c79c3f97-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:000014a9c79c3f97-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>
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Subject: Re: Etymology of Flack
Fred, do you still see the derivation from the name of Gene Flack as viable?
John Baker
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>> On Behalf Of Shapiro, Fred
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2024 2:53 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Etymology of Flack
External Email - Think Before You Click
Subsequent to my American Speech article on "flack," in 2014 I posted the following antedatings:
flack (OED, n.2., 1946)
1933 _Variety_ 20 Sept. Peripatetic Flack Press agent at one of the downtown radio stations.
1933 _Variety_ 7 Oct. Flack Writes Lyndsley Parsons, Monogram press agent.
1933 _Variety_ 24 Oct. Flack Quits Blake McVeigh resigned from the Paramount publicity staff, effective Saturday.
Fred Shapiro
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From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU%3cmailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>> on behalf of Baker, John <000014a9c79c3f97-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:000014a9c79c3f97-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:000014a9c79c3f97-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU%3cmailto:000014a9c79c3f97-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>>
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Subject: Etymology of Flack
What is the current thinking on the etymology of "flack," a public relations representative? I am aware that Fred Shapiro had an article in American Speech arguing that it derived from the name of Gene Flack, a publicist in the 1930s, although I have not seen the article. However, Merriam-Webster wrote in 2008 that they remained skeptical about that and other claims. I gather that the timing of its usage makes a derivation from "flak," anti-aircraft fire, unlikely.
John Baker
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