[Ads-l] Etymology of Flack (Corrected Posting)

Tue Jan 16 14:26:09 UTC 2024

Same goes for "gizmo." Or has that been solved?

JL

On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 8:13 AM Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu> wrote:

> Yes, I agree with Dave that the Gene Flack theory "is by no means
> dispositive."  I was only trying to respond to John Baker's question about
> whether the Gene Flack theory was "viable."  I think it is still viable.
>
> Anatoly Liberman has written that his quest is to avoid ever saying
> "Etymology unknown."  I believe that "Etymology unknown" is the hallmark of
> the true etymologist.  The etymology of "flack" is unknown.
>
> Fred Shapiro
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> dave at wilton.net <dave at WILTON.NET>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2024 7:43 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Etymology of Flack (Corrected Posting)
>
>
> That quote from Winchell only tells us what Winchell thought the Variety
> editors knew; it doesn't tell us what Variety editors actually knew. Also,
> according the antedatings Fred has found, Winchell was writing at least six
> years after Variety started using "flack." It may be that editors at
> Variety who Winchell may have consulted in 1939 were unaware of how the
> term had been coined by others years earlier.
>
> The 1939 Winchell quote lends a degree of credibility to the Gene Flack
> hypothesis, but it is by no means dispositive. Winchell may have been an
> expert in the field of entertainment, but lots of experts are taken in by
> false etymologies related to their field.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Baker, John" <000014a9c79c3f97-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2024 9:40pm
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Etymology of Flack (Corrected Posting)
>
>
>
> Thanks, Fred. Since the implication is that the people actually using
> "flack" did not know about Gene Flack, that would seem to count against its
> likelihood. Merriam-Webster mentions a rumor that holds that it derives
> from a similar-sounding Yiddish word for someone who talks about someone
> else's affairs. That sounds more plausible to me.
>
>
> John Baker
>
>
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> On Behalf Of
> Shapiro, Fred
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2024 4:19 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Etymology of Flack (Corrected Posting)
>
> I see a column in the Cincinnati Enquirer, 22 Jan. 1939, by some guy named
> Walter Winchell, who I think was somewhat knowledgeable about the
> entertainment world and the media. Winchell wrote: "Variety, which is
> trying to coin 'Flack' as a synonym for press agent (without much luck)
> might like to know it was born in the Chicago offices of Gene Flack, a film
> publicist."
>
> Fred Shapiro
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:
> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>> on behalf of Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU
> <mailto:fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>>
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2024 3:59 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> <
> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>
> Subject: Etymology of Flack (Corrected Posting)
>
> The case for Gene Flack is based on a 1939 article in the magazine Better
> English, which stated that the term "flack" "is said to" have originated in
> Variety derived from Gene Flack's name (the Better English article also
> mentions a possible Yiddish derivation). My discoveries of 1933 uses in
> Variety make the 1939 article more distant from the origination and thus
> less authoritative.
>
> I do not think that the 1933 discoveries make the Gene Flack theory
> unviable. If the 1939 article was based on information from Variety itself,
> that would carry weight.
>
> Fred Shapiro
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:
> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>> on behalf of Baker, John <
> 000014a9c79c3f97-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:
> 000014a9c79c3f97-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2024 3:11 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> <
> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>
> Subject: Re: Etymology of Flack
>
> Fred, do you still see the derivation from the name of Gene Flack as
> viable?
>
>
> John Baker
>
>
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:
> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>> On Behalf Of Shapiro, Fred
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2024 2:53 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Etymology of Flack
>
> External Email - Think Before You Click
>
>
> Subsequent to my American Speech article on "flack," in 2014 I posted the
> following antedatings:
>
>
> flack (OED, n.2., 1946)
>
> 1933 _Variety_ 20 Sept. Peripatetic Flack Press agent at one of the
> downtown radio stations.
>
> 1933 _Variety_ 7 Oct. Flack Writes Lyndsley Parsons, Monogram press agent.
>
> 1933 _Variety_ 24 Oct. Flack Quits Blake McVeigh resigned from the
> Paramount publicity staff, effective Saturday.
>
>
> Fred Shapiro
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:
> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU%
> 3cmailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>> on behalf of Baker, John <
> 000014a9c79c3f97-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:
> 000014a9c79c3f97-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:
> 000014a9c79c3f97-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU%
> 3cmailto:000014a9c79c3f97-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>>
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2024 2:44 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:
> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU%3cmailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>> <
> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:
> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU%3cmailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>>
> Subject: Etymology of Flack
>
> What is the current thinking on the etymology of "flack," a public
> relations representative? I am aware that Fred Shapiro had an article in
> American Speech arguing that it derived from the name of Gene Flack, a
> publicist in the 1930s, although I have not seen the article. However,
> Merriam-Webster wrote in 2008 that they remained skeptical about that and
> other claims. I gather that the timing of its usage makes a derivation from
> "flak," anti-aircraft fire, unlikely.
>
>
> John Baker
>
>
>
>
>
>
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