[Ads-l] Very Small Antedating of "Dixie"
Jonathan Lighter
00001aad181a2549-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Fri Jul 25 21:51:24 UTC 2025
It is claimed in various places, including Wikipedia and the Atlantic, that
Emmett used the phrase "Dixie's Land" earlier in his song "Jonny [or
"Johnny"] Roach," allegedly first performed in February or March, 1859.
Emmett's biographer, Hans Nathan, dated the song to "March, 1859," based on
"a program in 1859 in a bound volume of Bryant's programs of 1859-60, now
in the Harvard College Library."
Be that as it may, the earliest mention of a performance of "Jonny/ Johnny
Roach" in Newspapers.com & GenealogyBank is in the N. Y. Herald of Dec. 4,
1859, many months after the better known song.
JL
On Fri, Jul 25, 2025 at 3:17 PM Stephen Goranson <
0000179d4093b2d6-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
> To illustrate the ambiguity of Dixie's Land song, it was liked by both
> Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis.
>
> sg
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Stephen Goranson <0000179d4093b2d6-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2025 12:24 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Very Small Antedating of "Dixie"
>
> Posted before, from January, 1861:
>
> Miss Dix's Land
> Sing-Sing
>
> Vanity Fair, New York, v.3, 45/2
>
>
> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DM1I5AQAAMAAJ%26pg%3DPA45%26dq%3Dsing%2B%2522miss%2Bdix%2527s%2Bland%2B%2522%26hl%3Den%26newbks%3D1%26newbks_redir%3D0%26sa%3DX%26ved%3D2ahUKEwirhdb3s9iOAxUSkmoFHdxePK8Q6AF6BAgGEAM%23v%3Donepage%26q%3Dsing%2520%2522miss%2520dix%27s%2520land%2520%2522%26f%3Dfalse&data=05%7C02%7Cgoranson%40DUKE.EDU%7Cb0def861b7dd4cf6f4c808ddcb97bbee%7Ccb72c54e4a314d9eb14a1ea36dfac94c%7C0%7C0%7C638890574748647126%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Pb6Lj%2F2rXX4cvi5KjYWFCx0n9Tt9Vs80ZIG3LkObyR8%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://books.google.com/books?id=M1I5AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA45&dq=sing+%22miss+dix%27s+land+%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwirhdb3s9iOAxUSkmoFHdxePK8Q6AF6BAgGEAM#v=onepage&q=sing%20%22miss%20dix's%20land%20%22&f=false
> >
>
> sg
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Stephen Goranson <0000179d4093b2d6-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2025 9:25 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Very Small Antedating of "Dixie"
>
> Dorothea Dix (called, e.g., the Mrs. Elizabeth Fry of the US) was quite
> famous when the song was composed. As was her effort to establish Dix's
> Land in Raleigh, NC.
>
> More famous, perhaps, than the game that may have been played in NY.
> More so, in the north, than the New Orleans dix note.
> Less so, perhaps, than the Mason Dixon Line, though the Dixon to Dixie to
> the South multiple transitions proposal may be tenuous. Was then the North
> Mason-associated?
>
> The original lyrics were what, ironic, illogical nostalgia put in the
> mouths of free Blacks in the North? Belittled by a blackface minstrel?
>
> Later, later, adapted and adopted or co-opted, in the South as southern
> pride.
>
> If so, then, originally crazy talk. And where were "crazy people" sent?
> To an asylum. Notionally, such as Dix's land. (Easier to sing Dixie.)
> Before becoming a contested anthem, given the catchy music, slighting some
> Blacks and maybe also a do-gooder woman?
> Maybe, maybe not.
>
> Stephen Goranson
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Stephen Goranson <0000179d4093b2d6-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2025 2:02 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Very Small Antedating of "Dixie"
>
> Though some Dix-plus games were not in the south,
> Dix's Land proposal was in the south, Raleigh.
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Jonathan Lighter <00001aad181a2549-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2025 1:56 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Very Small Antedating of "Dixie"
>
> I was niggling pedantically that in principle "Dixie's Land" doesn't
> require the existence of a synonymous "Dixie."
>
> But the lyrics are the lyrics. They can't have changed that much between
> April 1859 and April 1860 without a complete rewrite, of which there is no
> evidence whatsoever.
>
> It's noteworthy (but hardly news) that the correct title of the song is
> "Dixie's Land," which in the sheet music is also where the singer will take
> his stand, and he wishes he was in "Dixie."
>
> The more euphonious "Dixie land" begins to appear in Newspapers.com in
> January, 1861.
>
> None of these terms, when meaning the American South, has been antedated.
>
> JL
>
> On Wed, Jul 23, 2025 at 1:09 PM Stephen Goranson <
> 0000179d4093b2d6-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
>
> > Though we now tend to think and hear Dixieland, even Emmett in 1872
> > (as previously posted; his story varied) claimed northern negroes said "I
> > wish I was in Dixie's land."
> > Much is iffy, but the possessive, dropped in the song, may be worth
> notice.
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> > Stephen Goranson <0000179d4093b2d6-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2025 12:00 PM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: Very Small Antedating of "Dixie"
> >
> > possessive
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> > Stephen Goranson <0000179d4093b2d6-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2025 11:27 AM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: Very Small Antedating of "Dixie"
> >
> > Dixie's Land—note the plural. 1859
> > "Dickies' Land" game 1856
> > "those who go to Dixey's land must be Dixey's men" game 1855 [cf .
> > sim.1844?]
> > And, what I think is under-appreciated:
> > Dorothea Dix's Land Bill, for an asylum in North Carolina, multiple
> times,
> > 1854 , and belittled in NY in 1861
> >
> > Stephen Goranson
> > NC
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> > Jonathan Lighter <00001aad181a2549-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2025 10:43 AM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: Very Small Antedating of "Dixie"
> >
> > Nice, Fred.
> >
> > There can't be any doubt that the form "Dixie" appeared in Emmett's song
> > from the beginning.
> >
> > The text, however, seems not to have been published till 1860. Possibly
> the
> > earliest published quote from the song to include the word "Dixie"
> > [Newspapers.com]:
> >
> > 1860 _Daily Times-Picayune_ (N.O.) (Apr. 19) 1: To the tune of "I wish I
> > was in Dixie."
> >
> > This may have been posted earlier.
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 23, 2025 at 9:38 AM Shapiro, Fred <
> > 00001ac016895344-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > Barry Popik and Jonathan Lighter have done magnificent etymological
> > > research on the word "Dixie," connecting it to the name of a children's
> > > game and to the "Mason-Dixon Line." Here is a tiny (one-day)
> antedating
> > of
> > > the OED's entry for "Dixie" meaning the Southern United States:
> > >
> > > Dixie (OED 1959 [4 Apr.])
> > >
> > > 1859 New York Herald 3 Apr. 7/5 (Newspapers.com)
> > >
> > > BRYANT'S MINSTRELS. ... DIXIE'S LAND, another new Plantation Festival.
> > >
> > > Fred Shapiro
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society -
> >
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> > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society -
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>
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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