[Ads-l] Saying Origin: Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill

[Geoffrey Nathan]

This antedating does not surprise me in the least. In the 1970s I was doing intense training in karate (something that might surprise those of you who know me). I know I heard my instructor say that several times while I was sparring with him. And he was indeed older than I.

Geoff 


Geoffrey Nathan
Geoffnathan at wayne.edu

> On Jun 5, 2025, at 12:42 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> [EXTERNAL]
> 
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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Saying Origin: Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> This saying in the subject line has been attributed to
> singer-songwriter Waylon Jennings, playwright David Mamet, political
> commentator P. J. O=E2=80=99Rourke, race car driver Johnny Rutherford, and
> others.
> 
> Way back in June 2011, JL initiated a thread on this topic, and I
> responded with a citation dated July 29, 1977:
> 
> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2011-June/110400.html
> 
> The wonderful reference book "The New Yale Book of Quotations" has a
> citation dated May 2, 1977.
> 
> In 2021, JL shared with me offline a citation dated July 21, 1975.
> Now, there is a Quote Investigator article on this topic:
> 
> https://quoteinvestigator.com/2025/06/04/age-treachery/
> 
> Below is an overview of the adage showing dates and attributions for
> close matches in proverbial form:
> 
> 1975 Jul 21: Old age and treachery will always defeat youth and skill
> (Motto displayed in the office of Jerry Schofield)
> 
> 1975 Jul 22: Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill
> (Spoken by Wayne Dollick)
> 
> 1977: Old age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill (Sign
> displayed in the office of Joseph Mastroianni)
> 
> 1978: Age and treachery will win over youth and skill (Credited to a
> friend of NASCAR driver Hershel McGriff)
> 
> 1979: Age, cunning, deceit and treachery can defeat youth and skill
> (Message on a T-shirt sold by John George)
> 
> 1979: Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill (Bohor=E2=80=99s
> Bromide in the book =E2=80=9C1,001 Logical Laws=E2=80=9D)
> 
> 1982: Old age and trickery will overcome youth and skill (Motto for
> cross-stitch pattern)
> 
> 1984: Experience and treachery will beat youth and enthusiasm (Labeled
> an =E2=80=9Cold saying=E2=80=9D by race car driver Johnny Rutherford)
> 
> 1986: Age and guile beats youth and talent every time (Announcer Don Davis)
> 
> 1988: Age and treachery overcomes youth and exuberance (Curler Lil Werenka)
> 
> 1991: Old age and treachery always overcomes youth and skill (Lyric in
> a song by Waylon Jennings and Willie Nelson)
> 
> 1995: Age and Guile Beat Youth, Innocence, and a Bad Haircut (Book
> title by P. J. O=E2=80=99Rourke)
> 
> 2009: Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill (Attributed to
> Fausto Coppi)
> 
> 2015: Old age and treachery will always beat youth and exuberance
> (Attributed to David Mamet)
> 
> The genesis of this saying was lengthy. Phrases of this general type
> have occurred often during the past one hundred years. Yet, these
> precursors were not presented in proverbial form. Also, they did not
> achieve precise wide repetition. Some statements used interrogative
> form. Here is an overview with dates and ascriptions:
> 
> 1910: Will experience and brains defeat youth and energy? (Sports
> journalist Dick Jemison)
> 
> 1915: Experienced fighters =E2=80=A6 utilize vast knowledge to overcome you=
> th
> and strength (Anonymous)
> 
> 1922: The warfare of youth and love and honor and courage against age
> and treachery and hypocrisy and mystery (Book reviewer John Clair
> Minot)
> 
> 1923: Proved the superiority =E2=80=A6 of age and intellect over youth and
> skill (Anonymous)
> 
> 1925: The ability of age and experience to defeat youth and endurance
> (Sports journalist Robert Edgren)
> 
> 1929: How to defeat youth with experience (Anonymous)
> 
> 1938: The splendid victory of youth and love over age and treachery
> (Author Louis Arthur Cunningham)
> 
> 1964: Can age and experience beat youth and enthusiasm? (Anonymous)
> 
> Feedback welcome
> Garson O'Toole
> QuuoteInvestigator.com
> 
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