[Ads-l] "H-Hour" and "J-Day", 21 Feb 1918

[Chris Waigl]

That's a good point. Looks like no. TLFi has a cite that has both from
1941. The general wisdom seems to be that "jour J" is a calque on English
D-day referring to WWII (though the actual D-Day was in 1944, and clearly
it was in circulation years earlier).

My bad!

On Fri, May 9, 2025 at 4:19 AM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> But did those idioms exist in 1914-18? Or were they influenced by English?
>
> Enquiring minds demand an answer.
>
>  JL
>
> On Thu, May 8, 2025 at 7:44 PM Chris Waigl <chris at lascribe.net> wrote:
>
> > Just to point out that "le jour J" and "l'heure H" are completely
> > contemporary French as spoken in France. "C'est le jour J" = "today/this
> is
> > the day" for example, in a vast number of contexts. "L'heure H" I've seen
> > translated as "it's crunch time". There's also a history podcast entitled
> > "l'heure H" (play on the letter H for histoire).
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > On Thu, May 8, 2025 at 12:49 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <
> > adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > A 1917 document from the U.S. Army War College explained the
> > > terminology "jour J" and "hour H". Strictly speaking, this was a blend
> > > of French and English. The French version was "le jour J" et "l'heure
> > > H".
> > >
> > > Field Artillery Notes No 6
> > > COMPILED AT THE ARMY WAR COLLEGE FROM THE LATEST AVAILABLE INFORMATION
> > > WASHINGTON, GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE, 1917
> > > WAR DEPARTMENT, Document No 628, Office of The Adjutant General
> > > ARTILLERY INFORMATION SERVICE
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://books.google.com/books?id=__V_6fZzDacC&pg=RA5-PA45&#v=onepage&q=%22jour%20J%22&f=false
> > >
> > > Quote Page 11 and 12
> > >
> > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > Based on these the commanding general is able to make an estimate of
> > > the progress of the preparation and thus intelligently determine upon
> > > the "jour J" and the "hour H" which play so important a part in the
> > > delivery of all modern attacks (See report of O 6 on Barrage and
> > > Accompanying Fire," dated Mar. 23, 1917).
> > > [End excerpt]
> > >
> > > Quote Page 45
> > >
> > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > The present French method consists in issuing preliminary orders which
> > > state that on the jour "J" and at the hour "H" such and such an attack
> > > will be launched, and that previous to this day and hour the artillery
> > > preparation will be made. The commanding general keeps in touch with
> > > the progress of the preparation by means of aerial reconnaissances and
> > > especially by means of aerial photographs. Firing is stopped in some
> > > cases for 30 minutes, to allow smoke to clear away and photographs to
> > > be taken. As the preparation nears a successful conclusion, the jour
> > > "J" is announced in strictly confidential orders, but the hour "H" is
> > > never announced until every possible precaution has been taken to
> > > insure that all enemy positions and machine-gun emplacements have been
> > > destroyed. Aerial reconnaissance and photography are kept up until the
> > > last moment, which result in the commanding general having in his
> > > possession photographs taken 30 minutes before his decision is made.
> > > The hour "H" is then announced, and the attack is made according to
> > > the preliminary orders. In this way every possible provision for
> > > success is made.
> > > [End excerpt]
> > >
> > > Garson
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 8, 2025 at 11:51 AM Stephen Goranson
> > > <0000179d4093b2d6-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mr. Cutchins: ...What was the jump off day?
> > > > Mr. Withrow: We jumped off the evening of the 7th.
> > > >
> > > > P. 228. Alleged Executions Without Trial in France. Senate Hearings.
> > > 1923.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://books.google.com/books?id=IBUvAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA228&dq=%22jump+off+day%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwin_e2fmpSNAxUW4ckDHWyYNRcQuwV6BAgFEAg#v=onepage&q=%22jump%20off%20day%22&f=false
> > > >
> > > > SG
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Chris Waigl . chris.waigl at gmail.com . chris at lascribe.net
> > http://eggcorns.lascribe.net . http://chryss.eu
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>


-- 
Chris Waigl . chris.waigl at gmail.com . chris at lascribe.net
http://eggcorns.lascribe.net . http://chryss.eu

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