[Ads-l] "Alternative facts" for EOTY

Sat Oct 4 12:46:46 UTC 2025

Back in 2018, Dictionary.com defined "alternative facts" as either 'the
opposite of reality (which is delusion), or the opposite of truth (which is
untruth).'

About an hour ago I heard a more apposite def. of current use on MSNBC's
"The Weekend."  I couldn't write it down instantly, but I believe the
speaker was Raoul Peck, producer and director of _Orwell: 2 + 2 = 5_.
Essentially:

"Alternative facts are things you have to believe even if you know they're
not true."

JL

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 8:36 AM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> John King of CNN reports that when he insisted to an unnamed
> "administration official" that certain so-called "facts" presented by the
> administration were simply untrue, the official replied,
>
> "We don't care what you say. We're louder than you."
>
> Another QOTY?
>
> JL
>
> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Presumably the innovator naively interpreted "history" to mean "truth
>> about the past."
>>
>> JL.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 2:56 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole <
>> adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> JL wrote:
>>> > Thanks, Garson.
>>>
>>> You're welcome,
>>>
>>> > Consider that an entertaining or moralizing "fable" is not quite the
>>> same
>>> > as a "lie."
>>>
>>> Yes, I agree that a "fable" and a "lie" are quite distinct. I have
>>> grouped quotations using those words into a family because I think it
>>> helps to illustrate the evolution of the saying.
>>>
>>> Your suggestion that there is a connection between the following two
>>> statements is valuable although at this time I have not attempted to
>>> trace the conjectural transition from the first to the second:
>>>
>>> "History is a lie agreed upon"
>>> "Truth Is a Lie Agreed Upon"
>>>
>>> Garson
>>>
>>> > On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
>>> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> A Washington Post reporter on MSNBC, attempting strict objectivity,
>>> >> offhandedly referred to Mr. Trump's "alternative facts" as
>>> "mistruths."
>>> >>
>>> >> JL
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 11:48 AM, ADSGarson O'Toole <
>>> >> adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>> >>> > The Net finds numerous recent posts asserting that leading
>>> self-help
>>> >>> guru
>>> >>> > Friedrich Nietzsche once wrote, "What is the truth but a lie agreed
>>> >>> upon?"
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > And if a bigshot said it, it must be true.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > GB reveals no authentic attributions to Freddy, and none before
>>> 2016.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I have examined a family of relayed sayings about historical truth:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> What Is History But a Fable Agreed Upon?
>>> >>> http://quoteinvestigator.com/2016/07/05/fable/
>>> >>>
>>> >>> [Begin excerpt]
>>> >>> Dear Quote Investigator: A popular skeptical viewpoint about history
>>> >>> can be expressed in a few different ways:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> 1) What is history but a fable agreed upon?
>>> >>> 2) History is a set of lies agreed upon.
>>> >>> 3) History is a set of lies that people have agreed upon.
>>> >>> [End excerpt]
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Garson
>>> >>>
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > A blog site confidently attributes "Truth Is a Lie Agreed Upon" to
>>> (wait
>>> >>> > for it)..."Abraham Lincoln."
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Cf. the older and ever-popular "History is a lie agreed upon."
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > So who, Garson, really introduced the phrase attributed to
>>> Nietzsche?
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > JL
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 8:30 PM, Laurence Horn <
>>> laurence.horn at yale.edu>
>>> >>> > wrote:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >> > On Jan 24, 2017, at 8:14 PM, Joel Berson <berson at ATT.NET>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > A la "alt right"?
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > Joel
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Seems so.  OED, s.v. “alt”:
>>> >>> >> Alternative; spec. denoting a version of some cultural phenomenon
>>> >>> (orig.
>>> >>> >> and esp. music) that is regarded as outside the mainstream of its
>>> >>> genre.
>>> >>> >> [citing “alt.rock” and “alt country”]
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> So alt facts would be a cultural phenomenon regarded as outside
>>> the
>>> >>> >> mainstream of the fact genre (in being, well, not true).
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> LH
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> >      From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>>> >>> >> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>> >>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 8:02 PM
>>> >>> >> > Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "Alternative facts" for EOTY
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > MSNBC is now using the short form "alt facts."
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > JL
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
>>> >>> >> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
>>> >>> >> > wrote:
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> >> Wrong! Wrong!
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >> Not a falsehood! It's an important alternate fact.
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >> Also note my signature line of many years standing.
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >> JL
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >> --
>>> >>> >> >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't
>>> handle the
>>> >>> >> truth."
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > --
>>> >>> >> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
>>> the
>>> >>> >> truth."
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > --
>>> >>> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>> >>> truth."
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>> truth."
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>> truth."
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> truth."
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>

-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org