[Ads-l] "You can't live with 'em..."

[Rich Lowenthal]

The original text reads,

Multis et eruditis viris audientibus legebatur oratio Metelli Numidici, 
gravis ac diserti viri, quam in censura dixit ad populum de ducendis 
uxoribus, cum eum ad matrimonia capessenda hortaretur.  In ea oratione 
ita scriptum fuit: "Si sine uxore pati⁠ possemus, Quirites, omnes⁠ ea 
molestia careremus; set quoniam ita natura tradidit, ut nec cum illis 
satis commode, nec sine illis ullo modo vivi possit, saluti perpetuae 
potius quam brevi voluptati consulendum est."

- Aulus Gellius, "Noctes Atticae," Liber I VI.2

Translation:

A number of learned men were listening to the reading of the speech 
which Metellus Numidicus,⁠ an earnest and eloquent man, delivered to the 
people when he was censor, On Marriage, urging them to be ready to 
undertake its obligations.  In that speech these words were written: "If 
we could get on without a wife, Romans, we would all avoid that 
annoyance; but since nature has ordained that we can neither live very 
comfortably with them nor at all without them, we must take thought for 
our lasting well-being rather than for the pleasure of the moment."

Text and translation at
https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Gellius/home.html


------ Original Message ------
>From "Stephen Goranson" 
<00001dd3d6fc15d3-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
To ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Date 5/4/2026 08:50:36
Subject Re: "You can't live with 'em..."

>https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Living_Age/qzpFAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=metellus+you+cannot+live+with+them&pg=PA66&printsec=frontcover
>
>"...we cannot live with women comfortably, nor without them at all...."
>Metellus Numidicus
>April, 1851 66/1
>
>On Mon, May 4, 2026 at 8:22 AM Stephen Goranson <goransonsc at gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>  By Metullus, Metellus may have been intended.
>>
>>  On Mon, May 4, 2026 at 7:07 AM Jonathan Lighter <
>>  00001aad181a2549-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>  Splendid work, Garson.
>>>
>>>  But who was "Metullus"?
>>>
>>>  JL
>>>
>>>  On Sun, May 3, 2026 at 7:58 PM ADSGarson O'Toole
>>>  <00001aa1be50b751-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
>>>  >
>>>  > Fun topic, JL. Here is an instance using "we" instead of "you".
>>>  >
>>>  > [ref] 1900 April 5, Oakland Times, Banquet to the Visitors, Quote Page
>>>  > 1, Column 1, Oakland, California. (Newspapers_com) [/ref]
>>>  > https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-oakland-times-women/196828226/
>>>  >
>>>  > [Begin excerpt]
>>>  > And we have their descendants about us, continued the speaker, and we
>>>  > all agree with that cheerful cynic who said, "These women, God bless
>>>  > them, we can't live with them and we can't live without them."
>>>  > [End excerpt]
>>>  >
>>>  > Here is an instance with "wives".
>>>  >
>>>  > [ref] 1901 August 31, The Montana Catholic, What Men Have Said About
>>>  > Wives, Quote Page 8, Column 6, Butte, Montana. (Newspapers_com) [/ref]
>>>  > https://www.newspapers.com/article/montana-catholic-live/196826972/
>>>  >
>>>  > [Begin excerpt]
>>>  > We cannot live happily with our wives, yet we cannot live happily
>>>  > without them. -- Metullus.
>>>  > [End excerpt]
>>>  >
>>>  > Here is a precursor referring to "the wicked" instead of women in 1888.
>>>  >
>>>  > [ref] 1888, Meditations For Every Day in the Year from the Christian
>>>  > Considerations of Father John Crasset, Translated by The Very Rev. T.
>>>  > B. Snow, Quote Page 166 and 167, R. Washbourne, London. (Google Books
>>>  > Full View) link [/ref]
>>>  >
>>>  https://www.google.com/books/edition/Meditations_for_every_day_in_the_year_fr/j6k4Pv66FzoC
>>>  ?
>>>  >
>>>  > [Begin excerpt]
>>>  > The wicked help to sanctify the good,
>>>  > But the good cease to be good,
>>>  > If they are pleased with their company.
>>>  > You cannot live without them,
>>>  > But you ought not to live with them,
>>>  > Nor seek their society.
>>>  > [End excerpt]
>>>  >
>>>  > Garson
>>>  >
>>>  > On Sat, May 2, 2026 at 3:38 PM Jonathan Lighter
>>>  > <00001aad181a2549-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
>>>  > >
>>>  > > 1907  Maude A. Bpmberger _Colonial Recipes_ (N.Y.: Neale) 105: Here's
>>>  to
>>>  > > the women - God bless 'em,/ You can't live with 'em and you can't live
>>>  > > without 'em."
>>>  > >
>>>  > > 1908 _Wichita Eagle_ (May 24) 12 [Newspapers.com]: Here's to the woman
>>>  > > [sic] - God bless 'em. You can't live with 'em, and you can't live
>>>  without
>>>  > > 'em."
>>>  > >
>>>  > > JL
>>>  > > --
>>>  > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>>  truth."
>>>

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